Collaboration..

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally Posted by Carlo

I am asking this thread be shut down...
...Lets not drag this out.

Why is it that whenever a thread starts to get interesting, it is shut down? I understand the balance between the right to free speech and an editor or moderator's responsibility to maintain an appropriate atmosphere, but it seems like there have to be better ways to handle it than to lock down a thread.

I see nothing wrong with moderating a specific thread, not to weed out ideas, but to establish an appropriate tone and curb offensive behavior. Another option would be to forbid people from posting in a thread or posting without review if their behavior is unacceptable. This is not censorship in any meaningful sense, especially if the moderators are of the caliber we've seen around here. It's a time out, which won't be so bad if the thread stays open. It gives those who get too excited a chance to cool off, and find a way to express themselves in a manner in tune with the community that they're a part of.

Something like this has to be going on already - for the thread to be shut down there has to have been many deleted posts that were over the line. Most of the stuff in there is good discussion.


/edit: a defnintion that was useful to me:

vituperative - marked by harshly abusive criticism; "his scathing remarks about silly lady novelists"; "her vituperative railing"

[Amanda Morrison]

Originally Posted by Kris Verdeyen

Why is it that whenever a thread starts to get interesting, it is shut down? I understand the balance between the right to free speech and an editor or moderator's responsibility to maintain an appropriate atmosphere, but it seems like there have to be better ways to handle it than to lock down a thread.

First, that isn't always true. There are arguments here on CD that do have a tendency to get out of hand, off-topic, or altogether just go bad. Also, if you look back, there are quite a few threads that have pushed many limits without actually being shut down. The necessity of discussion about certain topics is evident, however these forums are kind of like this year's game: Expecting everyone to understand and not test the limits of gracious professionalism. There is a lot of activity on these forums (and throughout FIRST) that ISN'T always positive, doesn't always follow any kind of graciousness towards others, and does not maintain a professional aura. Especially on the 'gracious' and 'professional' end - do you think Ben is going to ask his boss to "lighten up and chill out a little"? Or try telling your co-workers that you hate them and the way that they make the work atmosphere. That will take any kind of reputation 'points' you have in reality and certainly flush them down the toilet.

Originally Posted by Kris Verdeyen

I see nothing wrong with moderating a specific thread, not to weed out ideas, but to establish an appropriate tone and curb offensive behavior. Another option would be to forbid people from posting in a thread or posting without review if their behavior is unacceptable. This is not censorship in any meaningful sense, especially if the moderators are of the caliber we've seen around here. It's a time out, which won't be so bad if the thread stays open. It gives those who get too excited a chance to cool off, and find a way to express themselves in a manner in tune with the community that they're a part of.

This would be a great option, but unfortunately not very feasible. For example, when moderators were trying to edit the 'Robot Collaboration' thread, most of the posts had been coming at them rapid-fire and it's hard to keep up with them. This kind of system could delay posts at a day or more, depending on the topic; you can't just pick out certain people because not every post by a certain person may offend, just one or two. It's much easier to edit the post, PM the person, and say 'I edited/Can you please edit your post to make it sound more gracious and less offensive. If you have any problems with this, please contact me and we can talk about it.' Along the lines of that thread also, many people were posting specifically TO one person or a group, posting offensive material, posting replies to their friends... posting without thinking about things and simmering down. A lot of apologies and responses were recieved by moderators after the thread was closed, thanking them for not letting things get too out of hand (from both sides of the argument).

But that's just one thread, one argument, and these are expansive forums. Like Brandon's post said, by posting on these forums, you agree to certain rules. I'm going to post the following, and hope this brings a refresher to all users (in violation or not).

Originally Posted by ChiefDelphi Rules

ChiefDelphi.com reserves the right to remove a post which does not relate to the topic being discussed in the forum. In addition, ChiefDelphi reserves the right to reorganize discussion forums in order to best serve the majority of our members. (ie: topics may, at a moderators discretion, be relocated to a more appropriate discussion forum, or deleted entirely)

ChiefDelphi also reserves the right to prohibit or delete discussions that are thought to violate applicable law or that may be harmful to other members. Please remember, you are representing not only yourself, but your team and its sponsors, as well as what FIRST stands for. Please try to practice gracious professionalism at all times.

The owners of the ChiefDelphi Forums have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

If you have a problem with any of those rules, need clarification, or would like to make a suggestion, please PM one of the moderators of the forums (their names are located at the end of the page of each forum).

[Madison]

If someone is going to behave in a manner that is either unprofessional or disgracious, I do not believe that they deserve to have moderators cleaning up after them. Their behavior should speak for itself and, whether we'd like to admit it or not, is representative of that person. We all have moments when we make poor decisions, but it seems disingenuous and fake to try to erase those moments or otherwise pretend that they do not exist.

I don't think that having a moderator edit someone's post is going to teach them very much about their behavior. It will show them that they did something inappropriate, yes, but it will do absolutely nothing to make them understand why it is inappropriate or whom considers it inappropriate. Those lessons can only be learned by experiencing the repercussions of their actions, uncensored and unshielded.

[Jeff Waegelin]

Originally Posted by Kris Verdeyen

Why is it that whenever a thread starts to get interesting, it is shut down? I understand the balance between the right to free speech and an editor or moderator's responsibility to maintain an appropriate atmosphere, but it seems like there have to be better ways to handle it than to lock down a thread.

Threads get shut down because what some people call "interesting" other people call "out of control." There have been many threads I would consider genuinely interesting. There have also been many that I would consider genuinely out of control. Unfortunately, in many situations, people feel the need to post opinions flaming someone or something, and when that happens, things tend to get out of hand. Such matters tend to snowball until they get out of control, at which point, a lock is about the only way to cool things down. It's not perfect, and we hate doing it, but sometimes, it's just the only solution.

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Remember that what you do here, and what you say here, reflects on you, your team, your school, and your organization. Does the message quoted above, with the phrasing you have used, generate the sort of impression that you want this community to have of you (and your team)? When we all see Team 293 in competition, should your message be the last impression we have in our heads regarding how your team behaves?

-dave

"The opinions expressed in these forums are not necessarily the opinion of Team 293, Hopewell Valley High School, or Bristol Myers Squibb"
First of all Team 293 is just like any other FIRST team. We work hard to make our money and build our robot. We are proud that 90% of our robot is built by students and not by a bunch of engineers. If you have ever met is in competition we are just as friendly as the next team. We will happily lend assistance to anyone anytime. Team 293 prides itself in the behavior of its students in the competition, thats evident whenever you pass our pit and see so many students working on the robot while our mentors watch.
Teams in no way should interoperate the actions of one person as a reflection on our team.

[Cory]

While people shouldnt judge an entire team based on one member's actions, unfortunately, they do. Other people's statements may not have a direct impact on you, but they very well could affect how people view your team for years to come.

Cory

Originally Posted by Spikey

"The opinions expressed in these forums are not necessarily the opinion of Team 293, Hopewell Valley High School, or Bristol Myers Squibb"

No, but you are a representitive of Team 293, Hopewell Valley High School, and Bristol Myers Squibb...and even though varying people might have different opinions, you are still responsible for your words and actions as a representitive of that team.

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck

... you are still responsible for your words and actions as a representitive of that team.

It's true ... take a look at Andy Baker's signiture:

"What I write here may be my own opinions, but whether I like it or not, I am a representative of my team, Delphi, and Kokomo, Indiana."

Mmmhmmm.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Katie Reynolds

It's true ... take a look at Andy Baker's signiture:

"What I write here may be my own opinions, but whether I like it or not, I am a representative of my team, Delphi, and Kokomo, Indiana."

Mmmhmmm.

While I don't think anyone's suggesting that's the way things should be, it's life. We shouldn't judge others based on behavior that wasn't their own, but we do. It's our greatest asset and our worst flaw.

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by Ben.V.293

what the hell are you talking about when you say that the only opionion that matters is that of FIRST. are you stupid or something? EVERYONES opinion matters. I truly hate this site and all of the people that post on it. when dean and woody started this organization im sure they did not expect to create a whole community of nice ninkempoops that constantly blabber about gracious profesionalism and immediatly shoot down anyone who has an opinion other than that of their own. i said it before and i'll say it again EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion and 95% of the people on this site have to chill out and lighten up a little

You clearly missed my point. We all have the right to our opinions, even you! But FIRST has the final say in this discussion. FIRST's "opinion" is what we all have to live with. So ultimately it IS the only one that matters. Now that FIRST has spoken on this issue, we all must abide by there "opinion", whether we agree or not.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Brandon Martus

The debate that was mentioned here last night, and for most of today, has been canceled. Keep an eye out for a place (moderated forum, possibly) to discuss this and other hot topics.

Now that there has been an official response from FIRST, I'd like to see a place to discuss this. Perhaps trev2023's post could be the beginning, either in the general forum or the FIRST-A-Holic's Anonymous Mailbox (since we already have a moderated forum).

[Brandon Martus]

I will set up a moderated forum tonight, and I suppose this can be the first topic.
Stay tuned..