FIRST rules on Inter-Team Collaboration

[Joel Glidden]

Originally Posted by FIRST QnA

ID: 788 Section: 5.3.2.2 Status: Answered Date Answered: 2/24/2004
Q: If high school students on my team make parts for another team, does the team receiving the parts need to bill out our high school students at a typical labor rate as part of the $3,500 limit?

A: Gracious professionalism, "coopetition" and collaboration are some of the hallmarks of FIRST. We have all been amazed at the level that FIRST teams aid each other - not just at competitions, but throughout the year. By working together, we have increased our effectiveness inspiring youth and recognizing the value of science and technology. For the case when one team assists another team, this is viewed as "coopetition" - teams helping each other inspire youth. Of course, teams that work together must adhere to the FIRST Rules. In this case, several rules are directly / indirectly related to your question: <R09> Teams must fabricate and/or assemble all custom parts and assembled mechanisms on the robot by the 2004 team after the Kickoff; <R68> Additional Parts must be generally available from suppliers such that any other FIRST team, if desires, may also obtain them at the same price (a specific device fabricated by a team from non-2004 Kit materials does not have to be available to others, however, the materials it is made from must be available to other teams). <R73> The cost of all non-2004 Kit parts and materials used in the construction of a robot must be recorded (in US$) by the team, and a list of all such items and their costs made available during robot inspection. <R74> All costs are to be determined as explained in the cost determination section. 5.3.2.2 Cost Determination. To account for the value of cases when one team donates material to another team, if the donating team members or sponsors do the work without any associated labor costs, that labor is not considered as a cost to the team receiving the donated material. The cost of the raw materials must however be accounted for by the team receiving the material. If the donating team does pay for outside labor, the cost of outside labor must be accounted for by the team receiving the material (along with the cost of the raw materials). We are trying to create a community where working together helps us collectively achieve our goal of inspiring and recognizing science and technology.

Let the planning / formation of the 2005 design and manufacturing alliances begin.

[Yan Wang]

Originally Posted by Joel Glidden

Let the planning / formation of the 2005 design and manufacturing alliances begin.

*sigh* I don't think that's right at all.

[Brandon Martus]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...068#post228068

[JVN]

Okay. Let's recap the "facts" briefly.

-FIRST has now issued an official ruling that collaboration is legal for 2004.

-They have mentioned that collaboration is a POSITIVE thing, and even likening it to the "coopertition" the organization is so proud of.



This is my personal opinion:

I have no affiliation with 60/254, but I am a member of these forums, and feel very strongly about all of this.

A lot of people voiced a lot of opinions on this subject in a VERY short period of time. Many of these posts came off as attacking in nature, and downright slanderous of teams 254 and 60. Many people presumed to speak "for FIRST" and transcended "simple interpretation of the rules". These attacks left a VERY sour taste in my mouth. I was extremely disappointed by the way certain individuals handled this entire thing.
On the other side of things, I felt that those individuals from 254 and 60 handled this very well. The posts issuing from this side were all positive, and informative. They made their arguments very well, and didn't lower themselves to the level of the "lynch mob" that was persecuting them.

I do not think it is unfair to call for an appology by all those who gave in to "mud slinging" during all this. It is one thing to disagree with what went on, it is another to directly attack and slander these two teams, who have had such a TREMENDOUS positive impact on FIRST and the FIRST community.
Those members of these forums who have done so, have done a disservice to themselves, to their teams, and to these 2 teams.

Now, remove your foot from your mouth, and issue an applogy to these two GREAT teams.
(a PM would probably be appropriate)


I'm only sorry this wasn't said sooner. It is time to heal the damage that has been done.

John Vielkind-Neun
College Mentor - 229