Do We have a trend here?

[Bduggan04]

Originally Posted by Will Hanashiro

hmmm.... "demolition derby" eh? could be a very strong possibility. the elims at GLR were very physical... by the end i doubt that any team team made it through eliminations without damaging/breaking their robot. time-outs were very common in the elims, where teams were rushing to get their robots fixed.

The time-out idea is odd because one of the reasons for having alliances was to prevent delays by having a backup robot if one broke. It was a little unnerving to see a robot hanging safely and then two seconds later it was lying on its back because a robot lifted it off the bar. That's why you build them strong.

[edomus]

Originally Posted by Bduggan04

The time-out idea is odd because one of the reasons for having alliances was to prevent delays by having a backup robot if one broke. It was a little unnerving to see a robot hanging safely and then two seconds later it was lying on its back because a robot lifted it off the bar. That's why you build them strong.

Did teams really get pushed off the bar once they were already hanging?!

[Randy_VanW.]

Yeah we can give credit to TNT for that one. The Dana Team with the red robot (the number slips me.. sry guys) was hanging on the bar then TNT hooked came right up underneath them and lifted them up and off the bar. I think that was the only time it happened at GLR but still that was quite the site to see.

[Swan217]

I don't think that ties are as big of a problem as Time-Outs are. While it is statistically unlikely that a tie will happen, nevermind two or three, TO's are givens.

With 4 QF's, 2 SF, and 1 Final round, Times 2 alliances, Times 6 minutes, there's the possibility that you will be at a competition for an extra 84 minutes, just sitting around waiting for a match. At the GLR, I estimate that we were sitting around for at least 45 min during these such timeouts.

Incedently, why the heck did the Red alliance call timeout in the Finals while the Blue teams were only a minute into their own timeout? Seems like a waste to me...

[David66]

I was floored when that happened. However, had they called their timeout later our other alliance partner would have again been fully functional and we "could" have ran away with it rather than turning it into the tight race it became. Made it more exciting tho didnt it?

Side note: How about robots going after refs? Dan i know you almost got nailed a few times, lol. And BTW we did find our own distribution block after we returned the one we borrowed on thursday

[Swan217]

Originally Posted by David66

I was floored when that happened. However, had they called their timeout later our other alliance partner would have again been fully functional and we "could" have ran away with it rather than turning it into the tight race it became. Made it more exciting tho didnt it?

Side note: How about robots going after refs? Dan i know you almost got nailed a few times, lol. And BTW we did find our own distribution block after we returned the one we borrowed on thursday

Yeah, no kidding. I saw my life flash before my eyes when the Leaning Tower of Milford missed me by a literal inch, and team 1241 had both myself and Paul diving for cover when it decided to charge the side of the field!

Good job at squeezing out a victory at GLR, despite breaking your arm twice and "limping" off the platform at the end! Congratulations at finding your destrib block!

[Frank(Aflak)]

As a person whose robot sat out the Saint Louis eliminations (we had an ugly friday. And we only had one match after we fixed our robot, in which our auton mode functioned correctly and we got on the bar in about 25 seconds . . but it was too little too late. . .)

Anywho, I watched the elimiations. As a fan there is little in this world as exciting as two alliances tieing each other TWICE IN A ROW!!

The crowd was on its feet screaming their heads off. This is not something you see even in the finals. You are all talking from the perspective of the team, but let me tell you that in the crowd's mind, ties are great.

[dlavery]

Thank you, you just made my point for me. Alan - read the prior post ^^^ !!!

-dave

[Steve W]

I love hockey. I hate soccer. One of the reasons is you play to win. Soccer you play to tie and hope your goalie is better in shootouts than the other teams. Some of the ideas are valid but if you want to water down the competition then why not draw straws at the beginning of each match to see who wins.

As to breaking the plane rules, they are easier to call than others. Once a robot breaks the plane of the diamond plate they are in violation. However whether someone is intentionally damaging another robot is tougher to call. I had a discussion with the head ref at Pittsburgh after he told our team to back off. He said that he thought we were damaging another robot (which may or may not be true as there were no pieces laying around). My point was that the rules allow push and shoving and that if a robot can't take it so what. Our team did back off which let the other team go to the other side of the field and push our alliance partners away from the platform. Was this right? Who knows. What I do know is that the ref did the best he could and inforced the rules to the best of his ability and I commend him for his dedication and hard work. He is a volunteer and had no ill will to any of the teams. As to my opinion, I was partial to my team and may not see things the same. The ref also checked out the rules after the game to make sure that he remembered right. Again another plus for the refereeing crews.
On the other hand I do not condon ramming or intentionally damaging robots. I would rather see our team lose than be seen as one who intentionally damages others. It is a fine line between aggressive play and detructive play but most teams know the difference.

I hope that FIRST never goes back to the way they were last year. This years system is a lot more exciting (and demanding) than before but by the interest shown by the spectators proved it to be a better system.

O.K.


Thanks for the discussion and input. I will not bring it up again - and I won't say I told you so if the Nationals run late.

[Bob Steele]

I want to make a small comment about "breaking the plane"
Evidently it is perfectly within the rules for a team to jam the mobile goal into a the ball corral. In our case, the goal was sticking nearly a foot inside our goal area ... this seems to be OK with the rules... I am not sure why this is the case as the goal is actually more dangerous to people trying to retrieve balls than a robot because it is sticking inside quite a bit further...
I wonder whether if we had touched it ..and pushed it out, whether we would have been penalized ??? It would seem that if it is not dangerous for someone to intentionally push it inside our goal area then it is equally not dangerous for us to push it back out...

just wondering

thanks
Bob

[Swan217]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I want to make a small comment about "breaking the plane"
Evidently it is perfectly within the rules for a team to jam the mobile goal into a the ball corral. In our case, the goal was sticking nearly a foot inside our goal area ... this seems to be OK with the rules... I am not sure why this is the case as the goal is actually more dangerous to people trying to retrieve balls than a robot because it is sticking inside quite a bit further...
I wonder whether if we had touched it ..and pushed it out, whether we would have been penalized ??? It would seem that if it is not dangerous for someone to intentionally push it inside our goal area then it is equally not dangerous for us to push it back out...

just wondering

thanks
Bob

<G09> Team members may not extend any part of their bodies into any part of the playing field. Violating this rule will result in the disabling of the team’s ROBOT and the team will be disqualified.

<G28> If any part of a robot is in a Ball Corral (breaks the vertical plane of the diamond plate of the Wall), a referee will throw a 10-point penalty flag. The robot operator and the human player have a shared responsibility to avoid contact. If a team member touches the offending robot, that teams' robot will be disabled. If a robot pushes another robot to break the plane, the pushing robot will be assessed the penalty. If a human player touches a robot that has been pushed into the Ball Corral, the pushing robot and the pushed robot will be disabled.

<G29> If a human player touches a mobile goal that has been pushed into the Ball Corral, his / her team will be assessed a 10-point penalty for each occurrence.

[KenWittlief]

so then according to the rules, you CAN cram a moble goal into a ball corral so its a foot inside

but if a tiewrap on your bot protrudes into the corral by a 1/4" then YOU get a penalty

ok, someone at FIRST needs to rethink this one!

[Usman - Theory6]

Originally Posted by SwaDan

<G29> If a human player touches a mobile goal that has been pushed into the Ball Corral, his / her team will be assessed a 10-point penalty for each occurrence.

this is interesting.

if a team jams your chute thing w/ a mobile goal, you can push it back out and only lose 10 pts which is better than not being able to get any balls in at all.

make sense?