Pressure on Drive Team

[hay4man]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

from the tone of your two posts I get the sense there is conflict and resentment on your team.

being the person or people who put the most work into building and designing the robot has nothing to do with your driving abilities

do the engineers from Ford or GM drive the race cars they build on the track? No - of course not

on our team we have always let anyone who wants to be a driver have practice time, either with previous robots, our practice robot, and with our current robot - then at some point we have a contest in one form or another, and SEE who can actually drive the machine the best.

Putting the most time and effort into the build phase of the project does not magiacally endow you with driving skills - in fact, people who have been busy practicing driving while you were busy building would most likely be better drivers.

We also had HP pratice this year, usually people had to leave build work they were doing to go get shooting practice - and they were the best shooters.

A team is where everyone has one thing they do best and performs that function - not where one or two people try to do everything themselves.



with this attitude you wont be winning any chairmans award this year :c(

Sorry...but i absolutely disagree with you.

Driving a Ford or GM race car is an actual sport, a physical activity that requires strength and fitness. Driving a robot requires that you can move your arms and fingers.

Furthermore, if builders put the control of the robot into the hands of drivers who haven't even touched the thing, and if the drivers break it, resentment can build up much more easily.

If a driver feels no real attachment to the robot, then they should not be driving. Drivers need to have some part in the actual construction of the robot. They need to be immersed in the inner workings of the robot. They need to know how to turn it on and off, how to select programs, how to tether...in some cases.

And what does this have to do with chairman's award?

[Bridgette]

Originally Posted by hay4man

Sorry...but i absolutely disagree with you.

Driving a Ford or GM race car is an actual sport, a physical activity that requires strength and fitness. Driving a robot requires that you can move your arms and fingers.

Furthermore, if builders put the control of the robot into the hands of drivers who haven't even touched the thing, and if the drivers break it, resentment can build up much more easily.

If a driver feels no real attachment to the robot, then they should not be driving. Drivers need to have some part in the actual construction of the robot. They need to be immersed in the inner workings of the robot. They need to know how to turn it on and off, how to select programs, how to tether...in some cases.

And what does this have to do with chairman's award?

I think that the people on a drive team should be those that have skill, but can also handle the pressure and communicate well with the other members. Respect is also a necessary characteristic to possess. I'm not sure if limiting the drive team to those who worked on the robot is a good thing because you may be disregarding people that may not have worked on the robot, but could be a better fit for the drive team.

Also, what I think Ken was saying is that by excluding people who haven't worked on the robot from even trying out for the drive team, you're not showing gracious professionalism. That could be what he was trying to say about the chairman's award. In order to win, it seems like your team needs to embody the idea of gracious professionalism.

I think that everybody deserves a chance. Just because someone didn't build the robot doesn't mean that they don't have an attachment to it. Also, if you're worried about someone breaking something on the robot, use an old or practice robot for tryouts. I believe that teams need to have a sense of unity, and by restricting a drive team to only those who build the robot divides the team.

[Ryan Morin]

I know as the driver of our team for three yers that the drive team alone puts alot of pressure on themselves that they don't need anymore pressure from the other members on the team. I mean sure tell us what we might have done wrong during a match but dont ridicule us for it. But as for pressure on ourselves in know that everytime we go up for a match my stomach is doing flips the whole time we are waiting for our match to start. As for sleep the leaders of our team don't make us get a certain amount of sleep each night during competitions, as long as we are able to get up at work at out best the next day.

[Andy Grady]

Having done just about every job imaginable in my 10 years of FIRST, I must say that being a member of the drive team is by far the most difficult job. You can equate drive crew to the Quarterback in football. The drive crew is the center of the team, they get the most glory when successful, but also get the most flack when something goes wrong. After coaching on a couple of different teams for a few years, I have learned to never insult or question any decisions the drive crew takes. Being up in the stands watching a match is completely different than being down on the field. Your vantage point is much different, the field is harder to see, and frankly its quite crowded back there...not easy to think straight.

In short...go easy on your drive crew. Keep in mind that every match is a huge emotional roller coaster for all of them. If you just keep them looking forward, and you focus on your strategy for the next round...you might just be successful more often than not. After all...we are here to have fun...right?

Good Luck,
Andy Grady

[team222badbrad]

Sleep is the only thing our advisors really care about for the drive team. Not that we abide by their wishes. I remember in Chesapeake I was in bed at 11:30. Then our alumni coach came knocking on the door with my jacket. Not to mention the Chilli that found its way into our room (dont ask). This mistake by the alumni room members caused us drivers to get even AHEM... The wars went on till past 1AM (Known as Hotel Room Wars)

[MisterX]

Luckily I am a memeber of the drive team on a pretty good team. I have never had any of my teamates come up to me and criticze any decision made by someone while up on the stage. They know that we hold tryouts for a reason, so the best people for the job are up on the stage when it counts. Personally the person who puts the most pressure on the dirve team is the drive team itself because they seem to always feel humble and how they arn't the best so they will often question their decision however, the team is always their to support them becuase they know they did there best and that all that they can ask for. Besides if a drive team is up their concerned about what others on their team is thinking of what is going on than the drive team si unable to truly focus on the game to the amount that is needed on the stage 110%

P.S. Besides if a drive memeber on my team slept for 15 hours after a competiton as soon as he got home he wouldn't get up till 1 or 2 the next after noon and the buses will have already left at 6:00

[Lisa Rodriguez]

Drive team is a job under pressure, in fact that's one of our team's requirements to be on drive team, you have to deal with pressure, we test this on thursday and friday (usually mostly thursday) same with human player, anyone can try, we will narrow it down at our facility, and then put you under pressure and see how it goes.
One thing about our team, is that this year, we started having committees and drive team was one of them. Suddenly, our mentor of the committee says that kids on build cannot be on drive. The mentor, who knows little about actually driving (he actually DID say this, and admits he just wants to be the person there when we drive) thinks that this is a most excellent idea. I personally, being the coach, got to do both, because i don't actually DRIVE the robot, and i get to split my time (even though they often are NOT during the same time) I disagreed with our adult, and explained my reasoning to him, yet he did not seem to understand my points and simply warded off my opinion.
Now, 3/4 of our drive team knows next to nothing about the robot, although we are teaching them, and this scares me. Drive should know a LOT about their robot and how it works, how else can they make simple repairs without freaking out needing engineers? (not that there is anything wrong with needing engineers, but we don't have any onstage)
Also, a bunch of the adults on our team puts pressure on the drive team to do well, and strategy and things like that. My drivers have some experience, but are constantly worried about pleasing everyone the entire time (i'm trying to stop that). We got to such a point between kids and adults telling us what to do (mostly the same thing, like when we did one thing wrong in a match, it was like EVERYONE needed to tell us 3xs) where we had to make everyone go through our drive team adult mentor so that all 30 people in the stands were not telling us the same thing. People often also put pressure indirectly on the drive team, making jokes that they take way to seriously (i'm trying to stop them from thinking too much, but they do) I try to explain to my team to come to ME when things go wrong, but sometimes they just don't listen.
Pressure is mounted on drive team. The only thing many drivers need to know is to listen to the coach, they will tell them what they need to do.

(btw--126, you guys have AWESOME strategy, you made us get as far as we did @ UTC, you guys ROCK)

[The Paco]

as everyone as already established, a certain amount of pressure on the drive team is inevitable, but how the drivers deal with it is what separates the caliber of robot performances on the field. the most imprtant thing is to put as little pressure on yourself as possible and to have the complete support of an amazing team. no matter if our alliance wins or loses, there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and often times it is upto the drivers to figure out their mistakes and take action to correct them. after every match our drive team, coach, and other mentors who observed the match from the stands, watch the match on tape so we can all give constructive criticism to better our performance in the next match.

the robot and the drivers are only a small piece to any team's success. all the strategists, scouters, and the best coach in the world (in my opinion) come together to give us direction and hopefully sucess on the field.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Keiko173

(btw--126, you guys have AWESOME strategy, you made us get as far as we did @ UTC, you guys ROCK)

Thanks! Believe me, we couldn't have done so well without you guys. I told your alumni and former driver Joel that he left your team in good hands. You have a very inteligent coach, and an excelent drive crew.

Also, now that I think of it, there are good ways to select a solid drive crew for the field. As teams may or may not have figured out, it takes more than just drive skill to do well out on the field. You have to have a very stable mentality and almost a type of hungry agression in you to succeed. Back when I was with team 42, I used to run certain tests to train the drive team. Instead of basing our decision on one simple test, I told all the students that we would select drivers based on how they reacted in a series of tests over the weeks, that way the pressure was always on. These tests included game intelegence and strategy quizzes, drive accuracy, knowledge of controls, and of course my favorite...Perfection. Yes...that is Perfection, the old game with the odd shapes and the board that would pop up if you didn't get all the parts in time. I would have all the students on the team gather around a table. One student would sit at the perfection board as everyone around him/her cheered and yelled. As the time dwindled down, and the crowd got louder, you could really tell exactly how someone would react under pressure. I highly recommend this technique for teams who do driver training. Remember, its those closing seconds which can be the most key in a match. If you chose a driver who is liable to freeze up, it may be the difference between 1st place and 2nd place.

Good Luck,
Andy Grady

[Robohawk-master]

here's my 2c's

I feel that pressure is nessesary in a sense to give driver (like me) that this is a task not to take lightly. Just as any role of the team, you make the pieces of the puzzle work.

It's what you do with your robot,
Not how you use it.

[westfalia]

On our team, being a driver is more or less an earned position. We have tryouts (when the robot is capable) and that usually puts us in the right direction. I've been more than fortunate to have been a driver or operator for all four years now!

It's funny, but I feel absolutely no pressure when I go into the booth anymore. It's almost like riding a bike- the confidence that I've achieved is all because I'm familiar with the stance I'm in and the manuevers I'm going to make. I usually worry more about the robot working correctly, or a program put in the correct way for a given place. I usually do a little dance before each round- watch for me (the guy with long hair for 341) and you'll notice it.

With our team, we have our coaches and whatnot in the booth as well, and they are always told to do the strategy, but it always ends up being the drivers who both do all the stategizing (play by play during the match) and when we mess up, we're the ones who face the consequences of guilt and worry about repetition of the same problem.

So yeah- that's the story. I LOVE being an operator, I'll tell you that though!

One more thing- all us drivers seem to agree it's a difficult task. Let's all try to realize that when either one of our robots doesn't perform well during a match, it's not what we intended!

[FadyS.]

In our case, we're trying to put as little pressure as possible on the drivers. We're writing out tactical scenarios pages long that the drivers must follow precisely. If the driver panics, the mentor will be right there to simply tell him to execute stage 3 for example.

[hay4man]

I just want to state a few opinions.....as a driver and a programmer....

1. Driving seems to me...to be an innate ability. Everyone can do it....some better than others. Everyone should be able to do it, else the programming team is not doing their job.

2. A programmer should be a driver, for at least a few practice rounds, so he/she can make the robot easy to drive. If this is not possible, at least have the drivers interact with the programmer so he/she can make tweaks to the controls according to their wishes.

3. Drivers feel less pressure when they feel confident about their robot and about their control over the robot.

[tophq]

good point...even though im the regular driver, others have driven in competition. one was as relaxed as could be, while the other was having a nervous fit. i just know my position though. and from my exp, drivers just dont need much pressure to get the job done. it's in the contract they signed (without knowing it) upon accepting the job.

[tophq]

i know (from experience) how much pressure the drivers put on themselves. i know the thing that gets me all nervous before a match is if im going to perform well or not. it's in the back of my mind all the time in competition. i can't help but think, that if we lose a match, it's my fault. we (as many other teams ive seen) all have great robots, very capable of winning, so it seems like if it's not a technical problem, it's all driver error. despite all the encouragement i get from the instructors and team mates, i still get REAL nervous. giving drivers any MORE pressure will probably not help them out at all.