Standardized Scouting System/File Format

[phrontist]

I've been hunting around CD lately and much to my suprise, it seems every team is using a different scouting system. There are of course a few who seem to be sharing sytems (I think Wheeler-High at VCU was) but shouldn't we have a standard for this kind of thing? This way programmers would not be reinventing the wheel and it would make sharing a breeze.

Now then, I must admit I am part of a rookie team and I don't fully understand the requirements of such a scouting system. But a few obvious things come to mind:

1) The ability to distinguish between contributers of scouting info.

2) Every year a new sub-specification would have to come out definining robot judging categories. For instance, it makes no sense to retain a category for hanging capability if it's not a factor in a certain year...

3) It should be painless to merge scouting data from many, many, teams. (Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if we had a big centralized national website! Mmmmm... data)

I'd really like to see is a standardized file format (XML?) that all programmers can adhere to, and we can all live in magnificent harmony exchanging info on robots/teams across the land.

Please, any and all suggestions welcome. If this appears to be a popular idea, I'd love to help implement it.

[Ryan F.]

I've often thought of that. So many teams spend so long on scouting, and everyone just ends up repeating the work that's been done 100 times over. Next year we should come up with a scouting database, where teams can contribute basic info/photos about teams. Think of all the time and effort that would save everyone.

[c-squared_2006]

That would be great, because I worked alot on scouting, but I really worked independently (with some help) If a team of people could get together and share info, it would be alot more easier...

[KevinB]

Well,

Sure, someone can make a database with pictures and basic information about robots and call it a scouting database (several teams do). Will this help you strategize a match? I'm betting on no.

Honestly, the best scouting database is the one developed in your brain by watching robots play and talking to others.

Would you even trust a scouting report submitted by someone you didn't even know? I wouldn't trust my team mentor! Maybe this doesn't apply to you guys, but I have to see something to believe it.

[KevinB]

Yes, lets clarify some things a bit. I do not claim omnipotence, only reasonable competance. I have been in FIRST 4 years, and I have been to regionals where teams have set up public scouting systems; I've seen teams distribute "scouting sheets"; I've seen a lot. I am the strategist for our team, and I can tell you honestly that these systems do not help. A system that *might* help would be one that can give actual match data, such as percentage of balls hit, percentage of autonomous tasks completed, etc.

There is no reason to attack me in the manner that you did phrontist; I was simply stating an opinion.

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by KevinB

There is no reason to attack me in the manner that you did phrontist; I was simply stating an opinion.

No hard feelings man, just kidding.

I am quite new to FIRST, but an informal survey (just looking around, no database ) seemed to show that most teams use some form of organized scouting system. I presume that they serve some purpose, as teams continue using them. That, or it occupies people like myself (a programmer), who would otherwise have little to do during competitions (except the occasional last minute code tweak.)

[CrimsonDesigns]

I know that I cannot represent my team by saying this but I think that we should have central "templates" if you will. Just like there is a template for coding as far as controllers and the programming aspect of the robot goes. I think that if we get atleast 1 representitive from each team to participate we can get all our ideas together and figure out a way for which to share all of this scouting information without it being repeated and having just one team or person do all the work. I think this would be something great to aim for coming up on next years competitions!

Our team developed a visual basic program integrating the use of microsoft access databases. We have realized that in our scramble to get it together being a rookie team and all, it still has bugs that need to be cleaned out. Along with this sytem we have one scouting sheet which is a template so all sheets are the same, and one is taken for each robot per match. This are then relayed the the computer and entered into our database where numbers are generated to find our best match.
The system is a nice flowing system which works quite well and can benefit all. If you wish to view our files or even download the program I can send the link to individuals, should it be necessary I could then just post the link. However at my own discresion I am going to keep it under wraps for now.

[JakeGallagher]

I was a scout this season, as well, and I had a few problems getting info from teams, as their websites weren't updated or at competition, they were too busy to answer my questions in full.
I think it was Team 96...yup...they made a scouting database that was pretty much standardized.

You can find it here:

http://www.team96.org/scouting/index.php

I really liked it becase it was pretty much comprehensive (if teams donated their information, that is).

Maybe someone could code something like that for offline use?

[Max Lobovsky]

Originally Posted by KevinB

Yes, lets clarify some things a bit. I do not claim omnipotence, only reasonable competance. I have been in FIRST 4 years, and I have been to regionals where teams have set up public scouting systems; I've seen teams distribute "scouting sheets"; I've seen a lot. I am the strategist for our team, and I can tell you honestly that these systems do not help. A system that *might* help would be one that can give actual match data, such as percentage of balls hit, percentage of autonomous tasks completed, etc.

There is no reason to attack me in the manner that you did phrontist; I was simply stating an opinion.

As a driver and coache, I agree that most of the stuff detailing a robots supposed "capabilities" (has a 2x ball manipulator, team claims reliable autonomous, etc.) is mostly useless and that what really might be of some help is match records. Ideally, a move by move breakdown for each robot with notes of anything unusual (team XXXX match 27 - autonomous runs hits ball in 7 sec, herds balls for ~30 secs, climbs and hangs in ~35) and then overall numbers gathered from all matches from the team (team XXXX shot percentages, averaged ball herding rates, average hang time, autonomous modes and succes rate/time etc...) This would defenitley be ideal and i think it is manageable by a dedicated team of 4 scouts (one to watch each robot).

It would be nice to have a shared database, but as Kevin pointed out, its hard to take the opinion of people you don't know and who you can't talk about. We did keep a match record (though not nearly as detailed as i suggested) but we still ended up relying in large part to the opinion of the head scout.

We had four people in charge of recording every single thing that happened during each match. One person watched one robot only. Then we cross-tabulated the data with match scores and individual team scouting records. We never did this in the past, and this year we were able to pick alliance partners more effectively than in previous years. So, yes, I would suggest the record every match strategy.

[Max Lobovsky]

shoot, all the good ideas are always already taken...

[Ryan F.]

Hmm..well..I'll add my two cents again. As a driver and someone who's in the pits, I would say that I'd like that type of a sheet. When your looking at your next match, you usually have no clue what type of robot your with. It allows you to start to formulate a strategy before you go out to the other teams pits. True, this list wouldn't work for picking partners and such..you would still need scouts for that.

[Jack]

An attempt at a very unique central scouting system was attempted this past year. However, because of so many changeds in my robotics team, I was needed to focus mainly on that, and I didn't have the time to be able to ever bring the system to a working status this year. You might want to check out the FIRST Scouting Network (FSN) forum, located under FIRST Related Orgs.

There are a few FIRST'ers who were working on this system, and I'd love if anyone else would like to join in. I think that a system of the such would be such an awesome tool for use in FIRST, and I would very much like to see the system be used next year.

Thanks,

Jack

[c-squared_2006]

Let's just say that it's easier to know what the opponet's robot can do before facing them. So that at least you have an idea of what you're going into. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's just my opinion.

[Clell Chatman]

We just need to set up an online database that is downloadable to local drives and able to have changes uploaded back on for all teams to view.

Mabey one of the teams with IBM could help get us a nice database and superfast server going.