Dean's Speech at Nationals

[AliceC]

After reading all the posts, I'm glad to hear the other side(s) of the story. As I understand it, the global market is a trade-off. Yes, jobs are lost within the US, and placed elsewhere in the world, but the loss also creates opportunity for the growth of developing sectors within the US. With death comes life, as Joseph Campbell would say. It's painful to lose a job you care about and financial security, both my parents have experienced that in my lifetime, but that's the way things work. The most powerful statement of Dean's speech, I think, was (paraphrase): "There will always be room for people who work together." Isn't that what FIRST is all about? We're building an innovative AND conscientious society able to survive the birthing and growth of new technologies to the world.

btw, does anyone know where I might find a transcript of the speech?

[SilenceNoMore]

"There will always be room for people who work together."

Man I wish that was true.

[byrne159]

Originally Posted by SilenceNoMore

Wow, it looks like Dean Kamen knows the score. Good for him, he is annoying and arrogant, but I have to say, if he said the things that you say he said, then I should buy him a drink!

Dean's right for endorsing economic nationalism. America MUST win the technology race, it is the only way to survive. What do you think is going to happen if the Chinese get ahead of us in terms of technology? They are going to march towards Moscow and the Berring Straits and they aren't going to look back! Think I am crazy? 1.2 billion people, the world's largest army, and world history says I am not. When the Chinese are charging the Golden Gate Bridge with satellite and space weaponry, stealth aircraft, advanced body armor, and low-yield nuclear weapons don't say Dean Kamen didn't warn you! The Chinese don't believe in this One-World-Love-Everybody-Lets-Get-Together-And-Hug-Each-Other nonsense. They are smart and they always know the score!

And if you don't like outsourcing, then don't live in state where the government drives out business with insane regulation and extreme taxation (i.e Massachusetts, California, Oregon, and Washington).

First of all, we need to stop mixing up the terms nationalism and patriotism, because they are two distinctly different ideas. Nationalism is the concept of putting your country's culture, political system, and oftentims, though not in this case, race above those of all other countries. Patriotism, however, is a sense of devotion and/or love for your own country. It has nothing to do with how you view other nations.

The issue with outsourcing, which it seems many people fail realize, is that it affects more than just the unemployed engineers and their families. The way our education system is set up, if a community is losing jobs, they're paying less money in taxes, which means less money to their school district. That means that suddenly you may be losing teachers at your school, or textbooks in your classrooms, not just engineering jobs. This is not a superficial "gee, rich engineer can't buy an SUV anymore" issue, it's a matter of our nation's economy, and all the government entities connected to it, including schools that most of us attend, roads that all of us drive on, and public servants. Our country needs jobs to survive, and if people don't have them, we have no chances of remaining competitive in international technology. There is a domino effect that comes from outsourcing, that we shouldn't overlook.

Also, is it really fair to tell people that "if they don't like outsourcing, then don't live in a state where government drives out businesses??" Honestly, when someone gets laid off, first of all, they probably don't have the money to just get up and move, seeing as how they have NO INCOME, second, many of them have families who have commitments wherever they are, third, it's happening everywhere, and it's becoming harder and harder to avoid it these days.

Sidenote: India has a larger military in terms of manpower and the US spends over 4 times as much money on our military as China and India combined, so I'm not sure it's accurate to say China has the "world's largest army."

[SilenceNoMore]

First of all, we need to stop mixing up the terms nationalism and patriotism, because they are two distinctly different ideas. Nationalism is the concept of putting your country's culture, political system, and oftentims, though not in this case, race above those of all other countries. Patriotism, however, is a sense of devotion and/or love for your own country. It has nothing to do with how you view other nations.

I believe Dean was preaching Nationalism, putting our country's economic and technological future above others. Nothing wrong with Nationalism. It is very healthy.

Also, is it really fair to tell people that "if they don't like outsourcing, then don't live in a state where government drives out businesses??" Honestly, when someone gets laid off, first of all, they probably don't have the money to just get up and move, seeing as how they have NO INCOME, second, many of them have families who have commitments wherever they are, third, it's happening everywhere, and it's becoming harder and harder to avoid it these days.

The fact of the matter is that people are leaving states like California, Oregon, and Washington in droves and moving to more business friendly states in our beloved Union. California's population growth is driven by immigration.

Sidenote: India has a larger military in terms of manpower and the US spends over 4 times as much money on our military as China and India combined, so I'm not sure it's accurate to say China has the "world's largest army."

Not true. In terms of manpower, India has around 1.2 million on active duty and China has slightly over 2 million. China is currently spending around 100 billion on defense (they will usually only admit to around 20 billion, interesting how it works) and is acquiring and developing more advanced weaponry from Russia and our allies in Israel. The threat is there people.

www.globalsecurity.org

[Gabriel]

Please note that this is a long rant written late at night, however I have a some reputation points to spare and I think that it is important to say:

The more I read about Dean the more I realize that our idol-worship of him is misplaced.

I didn't hear his speech at nationals, but I have heard him speak on many different occasions. He may be a fine engineer but he is arrogant, hypocritical and usually just plain wrong.

I've heard him countless times talk with pride about how many states he's convinced to allow the Segway (using his huge team of lobbyists). In the same speeches he frequently makes fun of lawyers, lobbyists, and government.

The Segway was supposed to change the world, it is a disaster. Read the book on Ginger, its a fascinating look at how a great toy was hyped as a world-saving device it never had the potential to become. Dean was so caught up in his grandiose vision that he couldn't see the forest for the trees, he couldn't understand that his product could never deliver what he had promised even when real visionaries like Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos actually told him so. As a result, Dean has lost a great deal of credibility (something he himself admits readily). This is a frequent problem with Dean, he latches onto big picture ideas he doesn't really understand and proposes solutions that, while clever, don't work. Take the Segway, or the iBOT wheelchair that didn't win approval until this year, or even in a sense FIRST itself. The fact is that FIRST isn't about what Dean thinks its about. We aren't transforming the culture and we shouldn't be (and how wrong is it for a guy who famously abstains from popular culture to criticize that same popular culture he has no knowledge of!) Dean sees FIRST as a big-picture thing, about transforming the culture of the United States, but it isn't. Take the number of students who participate in FIRST, subtract the number who are inspired by FIRST, subtract the number who were already interested in Science/Technology, subtract the number who like FIRST but come out of it choosing a career path other than engineering. The number of people fulfilling Dean's vision ends up being so small as to be insignificant on the national level. However, FIRST isn't really about that, its really about inspiring individuals and communities, and here FIRST makes a HUGE difference. Most of the people at FIRST get this, Dean doesn't.

Dean is certainly genuine - I will give him that - but he isn't all that he is cracked up to be. Dean is no more worthy of our cult-worship (which we seem all too ready to hand out) someone like Donald Trump. Its the image we're worshipping, not the man.

How about instead of talking about Dean constantly we start talking about the mentors who actually make FIRST worthwhile. They are the inspiring ones, and they are the ones who are worthy of our attention.

Has Dean ever actually mentored a team? I know that Dave Lavery and other FIRST leaders do... why doesn't Dean?

[Bharat Nain]

Isn't it clear that Dean said that just because of people were talking against science and technology(in the sense that there is no future to it)? He must have thought that it would drive people away from FIRST and thought it was necessary to say that.

I disagree with what Dean had to say about outsourcing. It gets down to this. You are Mr. X. You have worked in the XYZ industry for 20 years now. One fine day you get an text message on your cell saying "You're fired". You now go around looking for a new job for 2 years and can't find one. You wife has fallen sick and you have no money to get her treated. You can't afford any insurance. You have sold you car, your house, and all your precious jewelry.

Where is Mr. X headed?

This is just a small story which 1000's of people live.

Let's say you have a job. It's rare that anybody would find a dream job these days. You sit in that small box and go thru hell everyday. I am not even kidding, I have been in such offices and I see no scope of improving. Not to be against a job or anything, but thats just real life. In only about 20% of the offices you would find a OK work enviornment.

Getting back to outsourcing. I love to be in a country like America, and I know many others who do. But people have had to leave this country because their job got out-sourced and they have no source of living. They are forced to leave this country, no matter how much they wish not to. Isn't that pathetic?

How can everybody stay at the top of everything? Those who do I know what their life is like... They spend more time with their boss than their wives. They spend all their life doing something useful, but their life is probably ruined. We need those kinda people just because it would be impossible to grow without them, but they just can't enjoy life.

Speaking of experts, anybody heard of the name Robert Kiyosaki? Here is a quote from him "If you have money you life, if you don't you DIE, its already hapenning in other countries, and it is spreading in America" Robert is a well-known expert in financial stuff, care to argue against an expert?

Sorry if I offended anyone, its just my opinion. I love to see technology grow... but I just can't agree that outsourcing is too good.

[mtrawls]

You are Mr. X. You have worked in the XYZ industry for 20 years now. One fine day you get an text message on your cell saying "You're fired".

but I just can't agree that outsourcing is too good

Sure, that people are getting fired because their job is moving, isn't "good." Dean's message was: What are you going to do about it? Talk about it for ever, or invent the next best thing. In our capitalistic society, businesses are going to outsource ... on the one hand it tends to lower costs to the consumer (something most people like), and, true, on the other hand it has a personal effect, and many people get fired. No one is saying that those people getting fired is A Good Thing -- but you've got to understand the issue is not so simple as that!

What I got out of Dean's message is this. Outsourcing is happening, it always has in one disguise or another, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can either be the philosopher who ponders over a glass being half-empty or half-full ... or you can think like an engineer and find a solution to the problem. Invent something. Lacking that, go out and make yourself "marketable." But just because you fell of the horse, don't give up. Just because outsourcing is causing a problem for engineers now, if we keep our children from becoming engineers the problem will just get worse, not better.

care to argue against an expert?

Almost always. (As an aside, depending on an "expert" is an example of what's called a fallacy; "experts" seldom agree and are quite frequently wrong )

[Joe Matt]

My dad has been out of a job for over a year now, and yes, it's easier to write off outsourcing when you still have money coming in and you can feed your family. Just like people who protest genetically modified crops, it's easier to debate against it when your stomach is full and you can do without it.

As for Dean's speach, I think that mabey he should have re-thought out his words, but I agree with him somewhat on things.

[Adam Y.]

Almost always. (As an aside, depending on an "expert" is an example of what's called a fallacy; "experts" seldom agree and are quite frequently wrong )

I agree. With economics almost everyone has an opinion and they usually conflict.

[David66]

i didnt read all the posts before i wrote this...sorry if im repeating, but theres not enough time to read them all. here are my opinions

outsourcing isnt bad-rather it is what keeps american companies in business. Here are some facts to back it up. The number one selling car in china-made by an American company: General motors. So, they move some jobs out of the country to produce goods at a lower cost in order to sell more cars there and in other places at a lower cost. The revenue this provides allows them to do research into things like alternatively fueled vehicles. And where are thos vehicles produced first? America. You can't ignore his "golden egg" remarks. If we kept everything in america prices would NEVER go down, flat-lining our economy. SO we outsource to make money-then put that money right back into America.

If you listened closely enough to mr. kamen, you would realize that his speech was not really nationalistic. His speech was there to get us to peer into the glass of creativity, knowledge, and invention. He didnt want us to sit here on this forum and debate about wether his glass is half full or half empty. He wanted to know if we can use our knowledge and creativity, what we can do with it, and how we can get MORE of it. THe goal of his speech was to get people searching for solutions to the problem of outsourcing, not debating the meaning of his words.