FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

[Sean Schuff]

I was surprised when I received the email blast regarding the price increases. Not so much that they raised the entry fee but because there was no hint that this was in the works. Usually there are rumblings throughout the FIRST commnity that give us an idea that something is coming. I certainly didn't see it coming but was not surprised with what I read.

I, too, feel for the teams that are hanging on by a financial thread. It makes me cringe when I hear/read that teams have folded for lack of funding. Why aren't more companies stepping up and supporting our teams? Especially in a country where 7 years and $750 million dollars (yes, three-quarters of a billion dollars!) was spent on R & D for a men's shaving razor! Priorities?!

Our team will adjust our strategies to stetch our dollars and find new ways to raise funds. Fortunately we have a sponsor (Plexus Corporation) and a school district (Appleton Area School District) that are both EXTREMELY supportive of what we are doing and they see the "big picture" value that it has. $2,000 will make us rethink how we spend our money but that isn't such a bad exercise every once in a while.

I look forward to discussion on CD regarding which fundraising ideas/methods work the best. The silver lining is that this is just another obstacle to overcome, another opportunity to seek new sponsors while at the same time spreading the message of FIRST. Sort of like having to develop a strategy, design a robot, build a robot, test a robot, and ship a robot...all in 6 short weeks!

Our two options: throw our hands in the air and say "Ugh. It's not worth the cost!" or develop more real-life skills in finding the extra $2,000 to support a team. Choose, but choose wisely!

Sean

[LauraN]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

Is there a thread or forum for fundrasing ideas on CD?

This is ChiefDelphi. There are threads on everything!

In fact, there's an entire forum for fundraising ideas here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=63

But here are two specific threads:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24178

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24233

So, in the good old FIRST spirit, let's all start brainstorming and sharing ideas, ok?

[Ryan F.]

And now we’re back to the good old debate over funding. The big problem here is that there are really two classes of first teams in this department. Those who easily have it, and those who barely get it. So here’s my opinions from someone on a team who doesn’t readily have loads of $$.

First stresses teams being self sufficient organizations, almost your own mini-business. This is where I have a big problem with the price increases. Why?...I’ve asked…is the price being increased so much. People have nicely responded and offered me financial reports and such, but nowhere have I ever found a dollar for dollar breakdown that justifies a need for 1000 extra dollars.

First is our supplier. If you were running a business, and your supplier all of a sudden said that they are increasing your fees by 20%, you wouldn’t just blindly accept that. Your first reaction here would be to demand evidence of why these supplies cost more now. What you would expect in return would be the exact cost of what you were receiving, such as our kit of parts+regional. In order for FIRST to increase the prices such as they are, they need to justify it by showing the cost of the kit+ the realistic cost to them of one team at a regional. Its bad business not to be giving us anything like this, and business in the real world that did this would lose their contracts. The reason they FIRST will never is that they are a total monopoly. No-one else has anything like this, and that is completely understandable. FIRST must respect that, and act responsibly.

Then we get back to the problem between some teams having lots of money, and others having none. In my belief, FIRST could have worked out this price increase a lot better than they did. Many teams, like us, barely have the money to do one regional and build our robot, yet you see other teams that seem to have more money than they know what to do with. I think it would have made a lot more sense for them to increase the cost of a second regional by 1000. This would shift the extra financial burden to those who can handle it. You have teams saying 1000 isn’t much to raise, when that would have been 1/7 of our teams total $ this year.

People need to remember that money is a big part of FIRST, and that tons of money isn’t readily available to everyone. It’s one of those inevitable things we must accept, but there are many better ways it could be dealt with.

[Pierson]

Originally Posted by rforystek

...The big problem here is that there are really two classes of first teams in this department. Those who easily have it, and those who barely get it. So here’s my opinions from someone on a team who doesn’t readily have loads of $$.

I would add one more class, those who have it, but have to work really really hard to get it.

Some teams have one dedicated person who does the majority of fundraising. But oh no, if that person graduates.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm mostly concerned with the impact this will have on rookie teams and FIRST's overall growth rate. $5000+ is already a large amount for a team to raise to start out with, and adding a extra K will hurt. I think what will hurt most though, will be the NASA grants. NASA gives out hundreds of 5K grants to rookie teams, but I don't think they could bear a straight 20% increase in the money they're putting out. Especially without it going to more teams. If NASA has to cut the number of teams they fund, the growth rate is going to take a sharp dive.

Also, I know all this is going to fund FIRST and such, but I'm questioning the logic of a team paying more money to go to one of the new streamlined regionals with no party and reduced AV....

[JVN]

I'm excited.
Hopefully this price increase will cause FIRST to be a better experience for all involved. Bring on 2005.

John

[mtaman02]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm mostly concerned with the impact this will have on rookie teams and FIRST's overall growth rate. $5000+ is already a large amount for a team to raise to start out with, and adding a extra K will hurt. I think what will hurt most though, will be the NASA grants. NASA gives out hundreds of 5K grants to rookie teams, but I don't think they could bear a straight 20% increase in the money they're putting out. Especially without it going to more teams. If NASA has to cut the number of teams they fund, the growth rate is going to take a sharp dive.

Also, I know all this is going to fund FIRST and such, but I'm questioning the logic of a team paying more money to go to one of the new streamlined regionals with no party and reduced AV....

Which is why we should'nt just accept this. IS there a better way to raise the price with out shoving it all on registration fees or doing it in one lump sum maybe monthly payments

[Cory]

Originally Posted by mtaman02

Which is why we should'nt just accept this.

See that's the thing. You have to accept it, or you don't participate. End of discussion. We aren't doing FIRST a favor. They're doing us a favor.

When they made this announcement, they weren't announcing a debate as to whether prices should be increased or not. They were telling us that they would be, and they did a good job of explaining why. As has been previosuly stated, it's been a good while since the entrance fee was last raised, and it's about time they did again.

As I already said, the bang for the buck is unparalled. Where else can $6000 change an entire group of student's lives forever? I know that FIRST has been worth every last cent that my team has payed, for me, and much much more.

Hey, at least they told us now, some 5 odd months before registration. They could've waited to make this decision and told everyone at the beginning of September.

Again, if you cannot find an extra $1000, you *are not* trying hard enough.

Cory

[Pierson]

It sounds like some of you have some animosity towards the increase in the entry fee. This would be understandable if it were a month prior to the payment due date and it would be very understandable if it were less than a month to the due date. However as Cory and Jessica and many others have said, we have over 5 months, which is plenty of time.

While I am now an alum, there are so many businesses that my team has not tapped and this is because we haven't had the financial need nor the student participation required to bring more sponsors on board. I would bet that there are many teams who are in this position.

Would it be great if FIRST could raise enough money to support a staff of 200 people, support 50 regionals, a major Championship event, along with 2,000 teams all without an entry fee? Yes. But is that possible? No. So let’s take this in stride work a little bit harder to raise more money and I will bet that everything will be better in the long run!

[Billfred]

Actually, I think the idea of breaking up the fees over time might be an idea, especially for additional regionals. Two grand when you register, two more when you ship? I don't think not paying would be a problem, given that you've already put in two thousand bucks.

I'm not saying it's THE solution, just an idea. If someone who knows more can show how it'd be a bad thing, I'll gladly eat my words--with ketchup, even!

[Max Lobovsky]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Actually, I think the idea of breaking up the fees over time might be an idea, especially for additional regionals. Two grand when you register, two more when you ship? I don't think not paying would be a problem, given that you've already put in two thousand bucks.

I'm not saying it's THE solution, just an idea. If someone who knows more can show how it'd be a bad thing, I'll gladly eat my words--with ketchup, even!

Interesting idea. Maybe FIRST can get some financial company to sponsor them by providing the multiple payment solution.

[dez250]

Originally Posted by maxlobovsky

Interesting idea. Maybe FIRST can get some financial company to sponsor them by providing the multiple payment solution.

I think by giving teams the oppertunity to send in multiple payments and break it up over time, might not be the best idea. What happens when a team wont pay up on one of their payments but have all ready competed?

[Ryan F.]

Originally Posted by dez250

I think by giving teams the oppertunity to send in multiple payments and break it up over time, might not be the best idea. What happens when a team wont pay up on one of their payments but have all ready competed?

Very good point. As long as FIRST waits for payment until close to the kickoff, then that's the best way to go. Making a payment scedule before the kickoff would make no sense, and just complicate the system already in place.

[Pierson]

I think it can be said that those teams who are driven, who are motivated, and who work really hard will come up with the money to compete. They will have the money to FIRST by the time FIRST needs the money.

And as for having a multiple payment plan, just have all payments due before the competition for which you are paying!

[team222badbrad]

This was my thread from April of 2003.

Will first ever raise or lower the entrance fee?

The poll results were as follows:


Yes I think they will raise it in the near future 11 36.67%
Yes I think they will lower it in the near future 2 6.67%
No I think it will stay the same for some time 17 56.67%