Help. FIRST and Ivy Leagues.

[suneel112]

I can always go to Purdue, which is a great college, but I would prefer going to MIT or CalTech or other Ivy League schools. Will FIRST help me get into these schools? By my senior year, I would have been in FIRST for four complete years. I have also designed several good robots, which were not picked because they were complicated. I have fairly good scores on my sats (1460), a good GPA (3.85 now, maybe a 3.88 or 3.9 by the end of senior year), good scores on my AP exams (5 in Calculus BC and 5 in both Physics C Mechanics and E&M), and I expect a 700 in SATII Writing and an 800 in SATII Math IIC and Chemistry. In extra-curriculars, I have done FIRST (mostly), Debate, and some clubs in School. Please tell me, because I may have to retake SAT if I have a chance. Thanks.

[Erin Rapacki]

I think your odds are good for getting into one of those Ivy League schools. Universities like those, yes... they look at grades & SAT scores, but they also want to know how you may have made a difference in a club or sport that you did. Let them know just how much you care for FIRST, and if/how you made a huge difference on Team 461.

ByE

erin

[Joshua May]

I would think that FIRST would definitely help out with getting in to any college, because (if they know anything about it) they will know that it takes a lot of time and effort, and is mental, physical, and useful.

[Max Lobovsky]

I'm interested in those same colleges (among others) and what from what I have seen from other people who have applied, anyone is hard pressed to get in without either a significant commitment sports or music, or some serious accomplishment in science or math (think intel/westinghouse prize winners). If you want to talk more about it, IM me on AIM.

[JVN]

I'm pretty sure that most schools of such high prestige are more interested in a variety of activities (at leats this is what I was told).
What else are you involved in?

FIRST makes a great story to tell colleges (or job interviewers), but it is only ONE story. If you answer every question with "Well... back on my FIRST team..." it will lose it's effect.
Hopefully you don't come across as a one-trick-pony.

As far as your FIRST experiences...
I've learned it is best to emphasize:
-Working as a TEAM, not individual achievement (for instance, I'm more than a little scared by your statement "I have also designed several good robots")
-Overcoming Challenges
-Leadership

$.02
JV

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by maxlobovsky

is hard pressed to get in without either a significant commitment sports or music,

Thats the one thing i dont get. In my school i am on 4 different clubs, all equally dedicated, so that means i have little to no time already. If i wanted to do a sport for the school, id have to drop one or 2 of the clubs. I know this, because i did soccer freshman year, and they cut me because i was missing too many practices due to after school activities. So, that made me not even try for baseball.
Besides that, why would a school worry about what sport you played, it will have little to no influence on life decision. Sure leadership and team experience is there, but you can get that in any club.

[Joshua May]

Originally Posted by boodah

Besides that, why would a school worry about what sport you played, it will have little to no influence on life decision. Sure leadership and team experience is there, but you can get that in any club.

It shows that you are "well-rounded," I supose. I'll be taking up fencing next year in addition to all my clubs, activities, and academics, hopefully I'll do well in that.

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by HHSJosh

It shows that you are "well-rounded," I supose. I'll be taking up fencing next year in addition to all my clubs, activities, and academics, hopefully I'll do well in that.

FENCING????thats amazing. Our school has only the normal sports, so its just a pain. all those sports have their stars already and many players in general, so its impossible to wiggle yourself in a spot, b/c you could be replaced very quickly. if we had sports/activities like that, im sure id do that too, and be allowed to b/c so few people would try.

[abeD]

Ya your chances are good...My whole application was about FIRST and how I learned alot of great stuff in the 4 years i did it...and in my interview i talked about FIRST even more..people love hearing this kind of stuff...You just gotta present it in the right way..Your grades and scores sound pretty good so no problem there..btw i got into U.Penn with similar statistics.

[Max Lobovsky]

Originally Posted by boodah

Thats the one thing i dont get. In my school i am on 4 different clubs, all equally dedicated, so that means i have little to no time already. If i wanted to do a sport for the school, id have to drop one or 2 of the clubs. I know this, because i did soccer freshman year, and they cut me because i was missing too many practices due to after school activities. So, that made me not even try for baseball.
Besides that, why would a school worry about what sport you played, it will have little to no influence on life decision. Sure leadership and team experience is there, but you can get that in any club.

Basically, by "well-rounded" they mean they don't want nerds. And btw, I wasn't talking about all Ivy leagues, you could probably get into a few (UPenn, columbia, cornell), but what I said applies to MIT, Caltech (yes I know they aren't Ivy), Princeton, Harvard, etc.

[Matt Leese]

My theory on applications to the Ivy League's is that it's a bit like playing the lottery; it's mostly luck if you get in. Now, I don't think it has anything to do with you not being a qualified applicant. Instead, Ivy League schools get lots of qualified applicants. This means that it ends up being a bit random as to who is selected to go. Perhaps that's just my take on things.

I should also note that neither MIT nor Cal Tech are Ivy League schools.

Matt

[Karthik]

For those who were wondering, here's the actual list of Ivy League schools.

• Brown
• Columbia
• Cornell
• Dartmouth
• Harvard
• Penn
• Princeton
• Yale

The well roundedness factor is a huge consideration for all schools, but especially the elite ones. It's in the best interest of the university that their graduates end up being very successful. This is for two major reasons. First, it looks good on the university to have important, high paid graduates. And we all know how much reputation means to a University. Secondly, if you're making lots of money after you graduate, you're much more likely to give some of it back to the university, in the form of a donation.

What does this have to with being well rounded? Well, study after study, after study have shown that well rounded students are far more successful in the real world than those who have just focussed on academics. The main reason for this, is that students involved in a wide array of extra-curricular activities develop a large set of inter-personal skills, that are invaluable in the job market. Also, the discipline required to balance a heavy schedule is key as well.

As a result, the elite schools in North America have recognized this, and now reward students who have a wide array of interests. The most rewarded activities are anything that involves a position of leadership (Student Council, Yearbook Editor...) and athletics.

Having high marks and FIRST as your only extra-curricular, might not cut it. In some cases it will be good enough, in others it might not be. Beware.

My advice to you if you want to go Ivy? First off, make sure you can keep you marks and test scores up. Secondly, go get involved. There's actually a world outside of FIRST. Go check it out, you might find that you like it.

On a side note, if you have the money to go Ivy, do it. From all accounts it's a more than worthwhile experience. I chose against it coming out of high school, and I kick myself every so often. Right now, I'm saving every penny I have, in hopes of going Ivy for Law School.

[KevinB]

I realize that this thread in, in fact, several months old ... but I wanted to revive it by encouraging all of you to apply to the schools of your dreams! The worst that could happen is that you'll lose a few dollars in application fees.

I got into (and now attend) Harvard and my application was about, you guessed it, FIRST Robotics. Don't think it can't be done.

Originally Posted by Max Lobovsky

Basically, by "well-rounded" they mean they don't want nerds. And btw, I wasn't talking about all Ivy leagues, you could probably get into a few (UPenn, columbia, cornell), but what I said applies to MIT, Caltech (yes I know they aren't Ivy), Princeton, Harvard, etc.

[Kevin Watson]

Originally Posted by suneel112

I can always go to Purdue, which is a great college, but I would prefer going to MIT or CalTech or other Ivy League schools. Will FIRST help me get into these schools?

Perhaps this testimonial, written by Lauren Lyons, will give you some insight. Lauren is on full scholarship at Princeton largely because of the FIRST-centric essay that she wrote.

This is also the third Summer that Lauren has spent at JPL working with me. She's currently working on a study that will identify the possible ways of drilling into the Moon's surface to search for water. I hired Lauren because she was a standout on a local FIRST robotics team.

This is just one example where participation in FIRST robotics has helped to open doors of opportunity.

-Kevin

[Joe Matt]

IMHO, Ivy League is like buying A&F Clothing, you pay more, seem like you are elite, and they tend to wear out faster.

Will FIRST get you into an Ivy (psst... CalTech and MIT arn't Ivey), no. It's your academic achievements and many other factors. FIRST isn't the golden key, but it will help. Be happy with Purdue, you will probably get a better education than some other Ivy Schools.

Also John, no, they aren’t looking for rounded individuals, but a rounded freshman class. I have an aunt and uncle who are in the college circuit (my aunt taught in Wooster, Oberlin, Ann Arbor, and now at Berkley) and they can tell you how many times its just luck.

Anyway, hope that helped. I'm not aiming for Ivy League myself, because I know that many other colleges crank our more PhDs and other successful people compared to Ivys. IMHO, they are treading water and using their reputation and selectivity as their life preserver.