Attention engineers...What type are you and why?

[Peter Matteson]

To start off I am an Engineer in training in the State of CT. I have not been praticing long enough to sit for the PE exam, need about another year. My father and my uncle are both PEs and have been working in nuclear power where they need their licsences for over 30 years. As such I never felt comfortable calling myself an engineer until I had a degree in hand. Many times when I have pointed out to others that legally you are not an engineer without a liscnce even degreed engineers are offended. With a licsense you obtain the right to be recognized by a court of law as an expert and will not be recognized as engineer without one.

Now to answer the original question:
I am a Mechanical engineer. I got my degree from Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) in 2001. I went for an ME degree becauseI have always been good with mechanical systems. Taking things apart to see how they worked and putting them back together. However like Andy electricity and I don't get along, getting through "Volts for Dolts" was painful to me.

After two years of school my brain was fried and I was frustrated. Engineering schools can do this to you. My basic feelings about engineering had not changed but life can get in the way as many of the other mentors know. For this reason I took a semester off from school to co-op. This was the best thing that I could have done for myself. I worked at Pratt & Whitney, aircraft engine manufacturer for those who don't know, where what I learned in eight months eclipsed two years of college. I got to see every make and model of commercial and military engine while done investigation work there. That refocused me and made the remaining two years of my education breeze by because I knew where it would get me in the end. I'm sharing this part with you in high school or college who at one point feel the same way.

When I graduated I took took a job at International Fuel Cells where I had interned before my senior year in college and another division of the same company where I co-oped. The name switched UTC Fuel Cells my first day of work, I soon learned name changes were a common thing in this business. I have worked as a design engineer on fuel cell power plants. I have been a manufacturing engineer on fuel cell stacks and prototype power plants. Most recently I am a mechanical components engineer. I select and test mechanical components for use in CHP (combined heat and power systems) power plants for the UTC Power side of the company. I wear many hats here because I get moved where the work is. Nothing however has been more humbling than having to be the manufaturing engineer on my own design. That is where you learn a lot.

Pete

[Paul Copioli]

I am a mechanical engineer.

I received my Bachelor's of Science (B.S.) in Aeronautical Engineering from the United States Air Force Academy, a Master's of Science (M.S.) degree in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Michigan, and a M.S. degree in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Michigan.

My first job was for the U.S. Air Force doing wind tunnel testing for what is now known as the F-22 at Wright-Patterson AFB. After receiving my Master's degree, I worked for Lockheed-Martin in Sunnyvale, Ca. doing spacecraft design for the Air Force. I was transferred from Sunnyvale to Denver, Co. to work on NASA spacecraft; specifically, the Stardust Mission propulsion system design. Missing the MidWest, I came back to Michigan to work for FANUC Robotics (my current job). I have been with FANUC for 7 years and I love every minute of it!

My typical day is much like Andy's, except I do a lot of mechanical and dynamic analysis of robot motion in addition to design work. I also get to test new robot developments for dynamic stability and accuracy. Lately, I have been able to finally use my fluid dynamics knowledge acquired while attaining my Aerospace degree because our group has been doing paint applicator development. We now develop the robots and the painting systems to paint automobile interiors and exteriors.

I have known since I was about 12 that I wanted to make complicated mechanisms. I, like Andy, wasn't into the electrical side of things so mechanical engineering was for me. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably try to double major in controls and either mechanical or electrical engineering.

By the way; if you are in high school or in your first few years of College (studying engeineering), in my eyes you are not an engineer. I wish I could be more PC, but it is black and white to me.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

By the way; if you are in high school or in your first few years of College (studying engeineering), in my eyes you are not an engineer. I wish I could be more PC, but it is black and white to me.

It's black and white to pretty much everyone.

Watching ER on TV does not a doctor make you.
All these "kids" who think they're engineers because they do FIRST, just need to realize they don't know "crap" yet.

Let's consider:
Step 1 - Think back 5 years, did you "know everything" back then?
Step 1.5 - Did you think you "knew everything" back then?
Step 2 - Think about now... do you "know everything" now?
Step 3 - What do you think you'll know in 5 years? What will you think about yourself NOW, in 5 years?

My typical Answers:
1. Wow, I didn't know anything back then.
1.5. Ohh yeah... I thought I was the man back then.
2. Heck yes I know everything! I'm the man!
3. Hmm... I guess in 5 years, I'll realize I didn't know anything right now.

It's a humbling process.


I've been in FIRST for 5 seasons. I've finished 3/4 of a degree in Mechanical Engineering. I learn something new everyday. I am NOT an engineer yet. I may work as one, but until I get that degree... I'm not.


Back to the real topic of this thread--
I'm majoring in mechanical engineering for several reasons.
Mainly because, mechanisms and machines are cool. Seriously.

I'm the type of person that will be (and has been) highly amused by an egg-beater.
(Seriously, check one out sometime, cool/simple little mechanism).

I have actually sat up at night, thinking about designs I'm doing at work, unable to sleep until I figure out the problem in front of me.

Go MechE... it's fun.

[Adam Y.]

Let's consider:
Step 1 - Think back 5 years, did you "know everything" back then?
Step 1.5 - Did you think you "knew everything" back then?
Step 2 - Think about now... do you "know everything" now?
Step 3 - What do you think you'll know in 5 years? What will you think about yourself NOW, in 5 years?

My typical Answers:
1. Wow, I didn't know anything back then.
1.5. Ohh yeah... I thought I was the man back then.
2. Heck yes I know everything! I'm the man!
3. Hmm... I guess in 5 years, I'll realize I didn't know anything right now.

Unfortunately, the same could be said for engineers with degrees. The feilds themselves are changing so much that you really need to constantly refresh yourself. So much so that I know to keep an engineering liscence in New York you have to prove that you are taking seminiars or collge courses. Also by the second year of college I will be working as an engineer. Im not sure what I'm going to be doing but I will be working.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

Also by the second year of college I will be working as an engineer. Im not sure what I'm going to be doing but I will be working.

Yep...
I was working as an engineer (or at least, working very closely with one) when I was a Junior in High School.
I wasn't an engineer. I'm still not.

There is a distinction to make.

[Amanda Morrison]

While the boundaries of being/not being an engineer are kind of fuzzy, here's a great way to describe, in my opinion.

You have a degree: The university is giving you a piece of paper that says, "We've taught you a formal background in _______, therefore you can say you have the knowledge of many professors, other students, mentors, etc. Go out and use it wisely." Afterward, as is true with all professions, you will learn more real-world applications and the tricks of the trade.

You don't have a degree: You have no person or institution backing what you may or may not have learned. Your projects and examples are not as credible. While you may work with others and gain some experience, or may work in the position of what you'd like to be, you will not have the same benefits that one with a degree might have, especially if you have taught yourself.

I'm sorry. You are not an engineer.

[indieFan]

A few things sparked by this thread.

1. To those who talked about the PE license: Thank you for the information.

2. For those who have multiple master's degrees: a) why do you and b) what are the benefits, if any?

3. Do you treat graduates of an accredited engineering school differently than a non-accredited? I know a student who wanted to transfer from a non-accredited school to an accredited one only to find that the classes wouldn't be counted since they were taken at a non-accredited school.

4. To reiterate what JVN said:

I had a prof. that had a PhD. He told the class the following one day.

"You get a bachelor's and think you know everything. You get a master's and realize you don't know everything. You get a PhD and realize you know nothing."

5. I am in my last year of attaining a bachelor's in Manufacturing Systems Engineering and Management. (All one major.) I ended up here in a very round-about way, but I am finding that the classes in Lean Manufacturing and CAD were the most fun for me to this point. I have will get all of my automation classes this coming year, but I expect that they will be great fun since I love machining, a touch of programming (doing CNC code from scratch), and designing components for FIRST Robots.

My ideal job would be to either: 1) work in automation/robotics or 2) combine my love of manufacturing with my love of food. I can even envision using a CNC and an Inkjet Technology Rapid Prototyper to carve or build things using chocolate.

My dream if I won the lottery: Open a bakery that was run by robots from baking to cashiering!

indieFan

[Ceal Craig]

To answer the question ….
B.S. Mech. Engr.(1974). The Ohio State University
M.S. Engr (Mech.) 1978. Cal State University at Fullerton
Work towards a Dr. in Engr. Management, S. Methodist University
~50% work towards a Single Subject Teaching Credential, National University

The above doesn’t really answer your question though…I began my career as a Quality & Product Engineer at Rockwell Int’l in Anaheim CA. Within six months, I was moved into management and for the next 26 years, I only left management for one year. I grew up to be a Director in Manufacturing and Operations after seven companies, three moves (two states) in Fortune 100 companies, managing from 3-140 people at different times, mostly as a direct manager, sometimes as a project manager. My last gig was with Siemens as Director of Operations responsible for facilities and real estate for one of Siemens’ operating companies.

In early 2000, I decided to change careers (it’s tough closing over five manufacturing plants) and took up teaching high school math full-time for a year. Didn’t want to continue that full time for various reasons unrelated to this thread. Now, I teach math and project management online for the largest online university in the world, tutor locally, and volunteer….

Leading to ….when I graduated in 1974, only about 830 women graduated with a BS in Engineering throughout the US. By 1985, ~15% of the BS-level graduates were women! Cool. But, unfortunately, that percentage has not changed much at all. To help change this record, I do what I can. I teach for Johns Hopkins University in the summers (fifth and sixth grade classes in Science and Engineering) and volunteer my time in many ways, all with the purpose of encouraging more young girls to consider engineering as an educational track and as a career.

Because, I believe, admitting a *strong* bias, engineering is THE EDUCATION to earn. You can do anything (almost) with an engineering degree. I’ve managed groups that were non-technical as well as technical ones; I have over a million miles with American Airlines, primarily on business travel; I teach bird-watching for our local National Wildlife Refuge; I teach math (even though math in college was challenging for me); I’m treasurer for an orchestra; and I coach, with my husband, a FIRST team. **All of these adventures have been and are possible because of those engineering degrees.** Engineering taught me how to solve problems, of almost any kind.

I’ll let my husband describe his own engineering background. We met in college, so given that I told you when I graduated, you know we’ve been together a long time. <G> When I was in school, very few men were comfortable with a woman who was an engineer, who wanted a career, and had some intelligence. He was one of those few good men. Things have changed, hopefully more and more every day. Engineering is a great education and career.

So, to sum up: engineer by education, technology manager by career, engineering educator today. My biggest dream: 30% of graduating engineers being woman by the time I pass on.

It was great to see more girls on the teams this year. I hope to see more every year. If you are at the Las Vegas Regional this coming week, stop by and say hello (though I might be in the stands scouting!).

And, if you ever have a question about life in engineering, then or now, don’t forget to write!

Ceal

[kaszeta]

To weigh in myself...

I'm a Mechanical Engineer (BS from Michigan State, MS and PhD from University of Minnesota), and I've rather enjoyed my career so far (I work as an R+D engineer for a small consulting company (http://www.creare.com).

I chose mechanical engineering because I really liked the mechanical and thermal aspects of physics and chemistry, and thought that fluid mechanics, heat transfer, control theory, and vibrations would be interesting to study (and, in fact, they were). That, and I've always had a natural talent for the sort of math and analytical skills that are used heavily in engineering. I also grew up as the sort of kid who spent half his spare time helping my father eek a few extra years out of our family's beat-up cars...

Note that there is a lot of overlap between types of engineers, especially at the undergraduate level. When I was getting my BS degree, the classes that interested me the most (heat transfer and fluid mechanics) were taught almost identically in the Chemical Engineering and Civil Engineering departments, and most of the other classes had similar versions in other departments (Controls taught in both EE and ME, for example, although the applications were much different). Part of being a good engineer is being flexible and having a wide variety of useful analytical skills, so this shouldn't be surprising (and note that, unless they've changed things, some of the tests like the EIT/FE exam aren't discipline specific, so it helps to be broad in your choice of classes).

As far as the value of a degree, I work with a number of engineers, with backgrounds spanning from no degree up to PhDs, and I can say that to a large extent education does matter, but so is experience, and neither can really substitute for the other. There are few substitutes for the learning that accompanies dedicating a few years of your life to a PhD (which, for me and most of my colleagues was easily a 16-hour-a-day job for a few years). And there are few substitutes for having 5 years of experience in the Real World[tm] tucked under your belt. But they are different, and try not to underestimate either one

A lot of people ask me about why I got a PhD; indeed, getting degrees beyond the Masters for an engineer doesn't usually turn into immediate increase in compensation, indeed, after getting my PhD I got fewer job offers than I did when I finished my MS, and the salary wasn't much different than what I would've been making had I been working those years, but the quality and type of job offers were better (i.e. the work was more interesting, and job advancement possibilities seem a bit better).

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by kaszeta

Part of being a good engineer is being flexible and having a wide variety of useful analytical skills, so this shouldn't be surprising (and note that, unless they've changed things, some of the tests like the EIT/FE exam aren't discipline specific, so it helps to be broad in your choice of classes).

Just to throw in the information from some one who more recently took the FE/EIT exam. The morning session is a general engineering section, and for the the afternoon session you have a choice of general or discipline specific. I for instance took the mechanical test in the afternoon, However my EIT certificate does not reflect anything differently.

Pete

[mechanicalbrain]

I saw this thread and since the last post TOO old i figured i would try and give it a try because i think that it truly is a good thread and i would like to try to shed some of my own brand of light on this.

Frankly I'm not an engineer, i don't have the knowledge, skill, or gall to claim to be one, I'm mostly an artist (no i don't have a degree in that). I got to thinking about what allows someone to say they are something like an engineer. I realized its a mix of knowledge and experience but not necessarily a degree (though that tends to give you both). No an engineer with a degree is a professional engineer. Frankly I know lots of people with no degrees who i would say can definitely be considered an engineer. It doesn't mean i would trust them to build a bridge or something along those lines but i think that at some point what you do defines who you are. Its just that saying some people aren't engineers is like saying Frank Lloyd Wright wasn't an architect (who never got a degree in college either). Or the Wright brothers.

I mean i recently read a story about a man who invented a completely revolutioniary type of aircraft and this man is a icecream refrigerator repair man. I would not hesitate in compairing him and his invention to Mr.Kamen and his Segway. I consider them both great engineers.

I saw a lot of talk about not belittling engineers and i agree! Anybody who can get a degree as an engineer fully deserves to be called one but also the title is not exclusive. The word engineer comes from the Latin root ingenium which translates into ability. Anyone with the ability to make advancements in a specific technical field and fully understand all the concepts of such field is in my opinion (if not yours) an engineer and deserves my respect as such. Everyone can throw around this dictionary version of what a engineer is but i think we miss the core of it.

I know this may not be the most accepted opinion and doubtlessly I will hear a couple reasons clearly define why I'm wrong but i want to make it clear that i don't intend to deceive you with the illusion that I'm right. I'm expressing an opinion based on my experience (as limited as it may be). Just read my post and keep an open mind and an open eye to the past (before they handed out engineering degrees ) Darn it why am i only serious when talking about a controversial and philosophical dilemma? I guess their is nothing i love more than a good challenge on my birthday

[John Neun]

I'm not sure what just sucked me into reading this thread, but it is very interesting. I am a Mechanical Engineer (BSME '76 and MEngME '77, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) and have been a registered PE in NY since '81. I'm a mechanical engineer because it is so much fun to work with mechanical systems and machines. I have been lucky enough to work with a wide array of them: large artillery, nuclear reactors, submarines, paper machines, tanks, gas turbines, and a host of others. My master's studies concentrated on mechanisms, but interestingly, I have been happiest working with existing machinery, trying to understand it and usually how to fix it. I think this is in contrast to what Andy Baker and Paul Capioli described as their passions. My secret is that, especially compared to my son JVN, I am a lousy designer but a better problem solver. I tend to be a linear thinker more than a creative one.

What makes an engineer an engineer? August participants in this thread have pointed out the black-and-white things. There are defined requirements and tests to legally use the title, required for public safety. I hope I am one and I know I want to be one and have for a long time, since I was in high school. That's why I became a PE. I never needed a license for my career. I needed it for me, as a personal accomplishment in a field I have chosen to be my life's work.

I knew in high school where I was going because of the Physics and Math. I actually enjoyed calculus! Mechanical Engineering sorted itself out as the logical path because of what I found to be exciting (structures, dynamics), and what I found to be difficult (circuits, chemistry). If I have anything to contribute to this thread, maybe that's it: don't worry about if you can call yourself an Engineer or not. Is what you are doing or studying fun? Is it exciting? Are you ever passionate about it? Follow your nose to what interests you. We are lucky in this profession because there is generally a living to be made in what excites us. My favorite thing about FIRST is watching the the enthusiasm and passion with which students become involved. It isn't all students, but there are always a few that it captivates.

On a personal note: John, GET YOUR LICENSE!

[sciguy125]

After wasting the first part of the morning of the last day before I go back to engineer training to read this entire thread, I feel that I must comment on it.

I think that the person who started this thread intended to ask professional engineers (people who work as engineers in the real world) why they are in their field. I disagree, however, with those who say that "engineers" are people with engineering degrees and seem to take offense to those who think otherwise. I feel that anyone who "engineers" (verb) has the right to call themselves an engineer. Meaning that they can in the proper situations, of course. I don't mean to say that FIRST high school students should put down "engineer" on a job application. However, I don't think that they should have to say that they aren't engineers when someone asks them why they are in engineering.

One more thing: what's this PE deal? I'm starting my third year of college and I've heard nothing of this. I flipped through my Intro to Engineering book again and I don't see any mention of it. I think you're all lying to me...

[MikeDubreuil]

I'll make this my coming out thread...
After 6 years in FIRST, 3 in high school and 3 in college - I am now an engineer. I will also officially change my status on the forum

I graduated on August 20th, 2005 from Wentworth Institute of Technology with a degree in Computer Engineering Technology. Today, I work as an Associate Software Engineer at Textron Systems. I chose software engineering because I love the software aspect of control systems.

Originally Posted by sciguy125

One more thing: what's this PE deal? I'm starting my third year of college and I've heard nothing of this. I flipped through my Intro to Engineering book again and I don't see any mention of it. I think you're all lying to me...

PE is an acronym for Professional Engineer. It's a license than you can get to certify yourself in a particular state as a qualified engineer.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by sciguy125

After wasting the first part of the morning of the last day before I go back to engineer training to read this entire thread, I feel that I must comment on it.

I think that the person who started this thread intended to ask professional engineers (people who work as engineers in the real world) why they are in their field. I disagree, however, with those who say that "engineers" are people with engineering degrees and seem to take offense to those who think otherwise. I feel that anyone who "engineers" (verb) has the right to call themselves an engineer. Meaning that they can in the proper situations, of course. I don't mean to say that FIRST high school students should put down "engineer" on a job application. However, I don't think that they should have to say that they aren't engineers when someone asks them why they are in engineering.

One more thing: what's this PE deal? I'm starting my third year of college and I've heard nothing of this. I flipped through my Intro to Engineering book again and I don't see any mention of it. I think you're all lying to me...

Phil,
Just because you do engineering work does not make you an engineer, Calling yourself an engineer gives others the wrong impression of your capabilities. There are a variety of disciplines that give a degree that shows that your field of study was engineering. A college student or someone that has taken engineering classes without the final piece of paper is an engineering student. The Professional Engineer is someone who not only has enough school credit to be given the piece of paper but is able to take a lengthy test demonstrating your ability to put engineering principles to work.(taken in the final year of school in many cases) The final step in most states is a minimum employment period where you perform engineering work, (Illinois is 2 years) and then take another proficiency test. The PE title allows you to perform engineering duties that non-PE engineers perform. (much of this work involves design that affects people or large financial investment in a project.) Even accoustic engineers need a PE for certain design and testing so as to be able to defend a product in a court of law. When a member of CD signs on as "engineer" but is really a high school student whose team title happens to be "engineer" many of the nearly 9000 members will take their opinion as gospel. This could be harmful to teams who need a firm and accurate answer from a knowledgeable source. Although many students know the correct answer, the first one to post may not be right. Anyone who posts here with a question directed at a engineer should get an engineer's response.
As always, (and to follow up one of Andy Baker's posts) a real name, a real birthday and a real occupation in your signature line goes a long way for communication to the masses.