Entry Fee Increase---hurting teams

[Tonya Scott 476]

I am interested in finding out how many other teams are almost destroyed by FIRST's latest price increase?

I understand that many components in our kits, competition etc are very expensive. But at this rate, team numbers are going to decrease, as well as rookie team recruitment.

There are several options that could solve these problems. Eliminating most of the kit components (many things end up in trash) If teams had vouchers for their motors, and other necessary components, and if kit inventory lists were released early, teams could gather up the things they want to use--this would require kits to be sent to rookies only maybe. Veteran teams will have vouchers to order the motors they choose to use.

The computers on the robot and control station could also be used for 2 seasons. This would reduce the costs by at least $1000 each year that it was reused. I know that this component is updated every few years, but why not reuse it at least 1 year.

There are many, many other creative ways to cut costs. We just have to be willing to explore these methods with an open mind.

I know that many teams are "super-funded" and a thousand dollars is no big deal. But for many teams, we are already stretched as far as we can go. Another thousand increase for 1st regional and then another thousand for championship ---that is a $2000 increase if a team wants to go to both events. That $1000-2000 dollars was the money for our metal and parts for robot, and some travel money. This is a HUGE problem for many teams now. I would really like other teams that are hurting to respond---without feedback, no one will ever think this is a problem.

What I can see happening is that the "super-funded" teams will be the primary participants at the championship and at a 2nd regional.

The rest of the "budget--challenged" teams will be doing good to attend 1 regional.

I am not trying to offend the "super-funded" teams--I think that is GREAT that you are able to do so many wonderful things, and pave the way as really good examples. So please don't take it that way. I am simply trying to be a voice for teams that are really struggling right now---it seems that maybe no one has heard our pleas for lower fees. My own team is struggling---and I know of many others. Recruiting new teams is almost impossible now---the price tag is just too high for teams that don't have a corporate sponsor with deep pockets.

I have already noticed that enrollment numbers are REALLY low in many regionals. Some have 10 or less teams signed up. I predict that there will be many regionals with less than 25 teams. Another point is that teams may sign up, but until they send in their payment---it isn't a sure thing.

My message to FIRST----you may have priced yourself out of business. This price increase will not only cost many veteran team to quit, or consolidate with nearby teams, but rookie growth will also suffer. I hope that this price increase will be reconsidered soon.

[Testament-Doom]

I totally agree with you. As a noob of the FIRST competition, I have seen all over in these boards pretty negitive things about FIRST and the teams as far as how things are going to work. My teal also has a bit if a hard time with money but we are very well-determined people in a society where community service is usual. We've estimated our cost to be around $20,000 dollars which we can cut off by about $12,000 thanks to sponsors that we can get, but $6,000 is still pretty hard to get. I think there should be sponsors for the FIRST programs even, since they can't get enough money and need to overly price us. If they do that, then the overall risk rating of FIRST going bankrupt will decrease. Until they do that (or to get more sponsors if they already have some), in 3-5 years, FIRST is going to be non-existant as far as I hear.

[Stephen Kowski]

The dark hour is approaching!!!!

Seriously though, that is just the nature of this competition....like i said before there is no workshop on maintaining a team....only one for starting a team.

We would be well over 1000 teams now if half of the fallen teams, remained. Unfortunately the emphasis is starting new teams (NASA Grants etc) and there is little to help a veteran team in trouble (ex. 147 - Deep Thunder). Until we have an emphasis on both starting and maintaining teams we are going to see the amount of teams dwindle in certain areas. Florida for example has been on a downward trend of net gain of teams for the last few years. Most likely similar things are happening elsewhere, but I'd have to research nationally to find that out for sure. I only know Florida for fact which is why I reference it.

[ahecht]

I know that my old team (992) was unable to do FIRST this year due to the price increase, and is instead doing the MATE underwater robotics competition.

[Rich Kressly]

Is FIRST expensive? YES
Is the payoff huge for FIRST participants? YES
The chance to interact with the likes of Dean, Woodie, Dave Lavery, John Abele, Steve Wosniak, ... do I need to continue?
When was the last price increase before this one?
The increase was made public very early so teams could add to fundraising, sponsorship pushes, and grant writing efforts.

If you're having a difficult time finding the 2K have you tried using a flyer like this one?
http://www.cybersonics.org/cybersonics/contribute.asp
Lots of ideas for fundraisers are also all over these boards
Lots of grants out there for after school programs, technology-based learning, NASA programs, etc too...

I do realize the increased fees have had an impact, but it all comes down to how hard your team as a whole is willing to work at it. As for the "super-funded" teams you speak of, you'd be surprised to find out how few of them really exist. Don't be fooled by large corporate names, it doesn't always mean that they are spending huge dollars and the ones who are spending big bucks frequently spread it out over several teams or pump money directly to regional sponsorship.

[Steve W]

I believe that the problems that people are having has nothing to do with the increase. The problem is with sponsors. I work in the real world in the field of communications. As the market goes up and down so does our work load. Businesses will spend money if they have it. This last 2 years I have seen a decline in spending and on these boards I have seen posts of teams saying that their sponsors have had to cut back and even some of sponsors going under. This makes raising money a little tougher. There is the point that veteran teams sometimes get lazy when they have some big sponsors. When the money starts to dry up then they have problems finding more. Our team does fairly well. We are probably in the top 1/3 of teams in the way of funding. We are always trying to get new leads and bring in new sponsors. It takes a lot of time and effort but is worth it. The fact that we are Canadian also makes it a bit tougher. That $2000.00 increase that you see is about $2800.00 CDN.

As for FIRST raising prices, I say if they need it to continue to provide the excellent program that they have, then do it. I have seen FIRST trying to reduce costs and I do not believe that there is a lot of wasted money. The staff have been overworked for years as they try to keep staffing to a minimum.

If we must lose some teams then I really feel the loss. I would hope that if there are a few strapped teams, rather than folding, that they would join together an make a single team and share resources. FIRST is too good of a program to leave. I hope that business picks up soon so that the sponsorship money will again begin to trickle in

[Lavapicker]

We're out this year! It's our third year and losing the NASA money along with the $1000 increase has done us in. We need about $22,000 to bring a modest size team from Hawaii to a regional. We have to fly so that accounts for over half our budget. We have no option of driving to a regional to save money. $600 car washes don't put much of a dent in $22,000 in bills!!!! It seems a shame to me to be part of the United States and yet the high cost of flying has left us out as orphans from these National competitions. I'm hoping we can save up enough over a two year cycle to still compete but in the meantime we are also entering MATE (underwater robot contest) to keep the interest up. Hope we can make it back...its had a great impact on our students but we may have to look at more affordable models instead.
Aloha,
team 1056
Hilo, HI

[Max Lobovsky]

maybe its FIRSTs competitive (if you ask me, that means capitalist) nature that causes them not to choose such a pricing scheme. As it stands, teams pay for what they get. A system like that is paramount to welfare with wealthier teams that attend multiple teams paying part of the cost of poorer teams that attend only one regional. I'm not saying I disagree with a pricing scheme like this (I need to think about it some more before making a decision), I just want to point out an effect of that system.

[n0cturnalxb]

Originally Posted by ahecht

I know that my old team (992) was unable to do FIRST this year due to the price increase, and is instead doing the MATE underwater robotics competition.

Ooh.. that looks VERY interesting..

*keeps tabs on BEST, MATE, and any other robotics program I stumble over..*

Need options in case we don't raise enough to participate in FIRST =\

[Lavapicker]

Here is where the mainland teams don't get it....to fly from Hawaii to the nearest regional on the west coast cost almost $600 (when I find a bargain). That's an expense that is non-negotiable...we cannot take a bus, train, rental car if we don't like it. I was upset at our regional last year when a team from a few states over was touted as miracle participant because it had to raise $10,000 to get there. What, they couldn't find a bus?? That wouldn't even cover my airfare! Add in hotel, rental car, shipping (wow, FedEx won't even ship from my Island for free) my students would have to come up with almost $1400 per student to participate. With over half classified as living in poverty I can't ask them to pay much or I lose them or select the elite few who have money. We've been very fortunate the last few years because of major sponsors but even at that we were walking a fine line. After a major sponsor pulled last year after verbally committing to us we found ourselves, me, in debt for $4000. Looking at $6000 more by December just to enter was too big of a mountain. It just saddens me because we have a great system going..committed teachers, students willing to learn and work hard, great engineer and community support but we can't sustain the $20,000 per year costs so our students miss out. I won't say lose out because we are still doing other less expensive competitions but I wish our students could see the "superbowl" of engineering that FIRST is, I know I could turn more of them on to engineering and technology.
Oh well, as someone once told me..stop complaining..even if things look bleak and we never get to go back to FIRST, look where we live! Hawaii no ka oi.
Aloha,

[Koko Ed]

I think one of the main reasons the original seven(?) have survived so long is solid sponsorship.
What also helps is proximity to competiton. It is easiest to see an explosion of rookie teams where there are local regionals (such as Finger Lakes this year) because they don't have to play for traveling or lodging and such. Just the competition. Teams off the mainland are in dire straits and unless there is significant industry around or government support they really struggle to get by.

[Chris Fultz]

Two things to (hopefully) be of help.

1) FIRST announced grants today for $1000 to new or veteran teams. Your primary contact should have the details, but the basics are you have to apply for the grant, and you have to use it as part of your entry fee for 1 regional. You can only be going to one regional - and not the championships.
The focus seems to be on struggling teams and I think it is a great move by FIRST.

2) Everyone on Team 234 is expected to find a $250 sponsor. Some find more than one, some can't get any, but most are able. This does several things - it gets all students out talking about and promoting the program and explaining what it is, it introduces many new people to FIRST, it gets additional 'ownership' in the team because everyone has done something extra to help with funding, and, it helps finance the team. Sponsors get their names on our T-shirts or on plaques, depending on what we do each season. In the fall, everyone who supported us gets a wall certificate, team photo or something else as out Thank You to display. Four small sponsors like this covers the $1000 increase in the entry fee. It is also kinda cool to go into a local business and see a team picture on the wall !

[gsensel]

During my time on team 45, 1998 -2002, every year we went to regionals for a small ($50-100/ regional, someone will correct me if I'm wrong) fee, and we paid half of our cost for nationals, normally about 300-400. All of this could be covered out of pocket or through many fundraising opportunities through out the year. Much of the rest of the cost was from our sponsor, which is Delphi, or additional fundraising done beyond our need.

So my question is how do other teams handle this cost?

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I think one of the main reasons the original seven(?) have survived so long is solid sponsorship.

Not for all of them...

Team 20 has been through quite a few sponsors.
In their case, the reason they survived is the INCREDIBLE dedication of one teacher, and a few community volunteer engineers.

If you're willing to work for something. You can do anything.


Kudos to Paul Kane.
13 years down, and still going strong.

John

[GeorgeTheEng]

I can see where that would be problem. What you could do is work to create enough teams in Hawaii that there is a base for a Hawaii regional. :> Then maybe convince some well funded teams to attend rather then going to Nationals or somewhere else that involves travel.

I for one would volunteer at that regional.

Originally Posted by Lavapicker

Here is where the mainland teams don't get it....to fly from Hawaii to the nearest regional on the west coast cost almost $600 (when I find a bargain)...