pic: The real Raul & Andy

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Actually, it sounds a bit too much like sports to me. It freaks me out.

It's easy and logical enough to want to emulate someone who's great at playing basketball or baseball or something like that. The rules don't change and, should you ever find yourself in a similar position as those whom you emulate, you'll likely do well.

...

Rather, I see wasted potential in a whole bunch of students trying to be just like their mentors rather than striking out on their own, making their own discoveries and forming their own identities.

It may freak you out personally, but it is exactly what Dean wants.

Originally Posted by Dean's 1998 kickoff speech

Again, the point of FIRST is to create, and do, for intellectual and technical things, what the Shaquille O’Neals and Michael Jordans do for unimportant things. And it give kids an opportunity to see real role models, real heroes, not celebrities, but real heroes. So they can finish up the six weeks and say "I can do that. I want to learn these things. I’ll put effort into that. I want to be like . . . you people."

And it is literally the only organization that I know of thats trying to do that.

You can read the rest courtesy of the Huskie Brigade: http://huskiebrigade.com/deanspeech.htm

Originally Posted by M. Krass

The rules of the game have changed and you're trying to be just like someone who, while still relevant and useful, is also outdated and entrenched in old ideas.

I didn't see any indication that one day of "dress up" causes these students to want to emulate Andy and Raul down to their exact thought process and oudated ideas. Your conclusion does not follow from the couple of pictures and posts made (Non Sequitur argument).

[JVN]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Rather, I see wasted potential in a whole bunch of students trying to be just like their mentors rather than striking out on their own, making their own discoveries and forming their own identities.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.
I see two students who using Andy and Raul as role models will potentially (good word, you can't spell potentially without potential) go into engineering. Now, just because young Corey looks up to Andy does it mean he's going to design stuff for Delphi? No.

Corey won't be reinventing the wheel. He'll be inventing the wheel's replacement. He'll be inventing the next insulin pump. He'll be designing the planes we'll be riding on. He'll be (I can't help myself) Raising the bar...

I dunno M, I just can't POSSIBLY fathom how you consider 2 young kids looking up to 2 engineers a bad thing. Like... what's the deal?

Having role models isn't a bad thing. In fact, it has been described as what this program is all about. Just because you have a role model doesn't mean you can't "form your own identity".

John

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by JVN

Corey won't be reinventing the wheel.

Darnit, all those years of hardwork for nothing. Maybe i can make a machine that flies...wait nevermind.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Corey Balint

Darnit, all those years of hardwork for nothing. Maybe i can make a machine that flies...wait nevermind.

Incase you all didn't know, Corey has this thing for flying machines since a long time. I am just naturally addicted to stuff like robots and machines. When I was a little, I used to take apart all my toys and try to understand how they work. Needless to say, my parents stopped buying me toys because I broke all of them. I cannot express my joy after joining the team. Working with actual robots is like a life-long dream come true to me and I look up to people like Andy Baker, Raul, JVN, Al Skierkiewicz, and engineers on our team and across FIRST as heroes who I can learn from. Without engineers, we would still be living like cavemen. I mean think about it, without engineers even operations(surgeries) would not be possible. That means engineers play a big role in saving man-kind. Anyways, best of luck building that flying machine Corey.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by JVN

I dunno M, I just can't POSSIBLY fathom how you consider 2 young kids looking up to 2 engineers a bad thing. Like... what's the deal?

I think it's a great thing. It's amazing and further absolute, undeniable proof that FIRST is succeeding.

I guess what bugs me is that I keep seeing kids say, "I am JVN" and instead, I want them to say, "I'll be better than JVN." I don't want for people to accept what they have now as the best there can be. I want to know that they're trying to do and be better.

I understand that it's probably implied that they'd all like to do something better than their role models and predecessors, though I wonder where that implication comes from. I'm sure it's something about the wiring in my head that makes it uncomfortable for me, and me alone, but I'd be happier seeing people saying, "I'll be like Amanda Morrison," rather than "I'll be Amanda Morrison." I'd just feel better knowing that the kids see that being like Andy and Raul and Amanda is admirable, but being them is redundant and stunted.

Edit: I'm sorry to have even shared my thoughts. I did not mean to ruin anyone's fun, nor imply that this wasn't positive. I just wanted to see if others thought the flattery could take a better path as I do, but apparently, they do not. It's not the first time it's happened.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I think it's a great thing. It's amazing and further absolute, undeniable proof that FIRST is succeeding.

I guess what bugs me is that I keep seeing kids say, "I am JVN" and instead, I want them to say, "I'll be better than JVN." I don't want for people to accept what they have now as the best there can be. I want to know that they're trying to do and be better.

I understand that it's probably implied that they'd all like to do something better than their role models and predecessors, though I wonder where that implication comes from. I'm sure it's something about the wiring in my head that makes it uncomfortable for me, and me alone, but I'd be happier seeing people saying, "I'll be like Amanda Morrison," rather than "I'll be Amanda Morrison." I'd just feel better knowing that the kids see that being like Andy and Raul and Amanda is admirable, but being them is redundant and stunted.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

The picture doesn't do them justice, you have to see them together, in person, for the full effect.


Everyone you meet will change your life forever. Even those you really dislike will allow you to point with pride and say "I don't want to be like him/her."

[Rich Wong]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

I'm staying out of this----

WC

DITTO....

well.... there goes the fun & games before the Kickoff.

[Arefin Bari]

I think i am going to dress up as JVN ... somebody want to tell me his attire?

[Joel J]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I think it's a great thing. It's amazing and further absolute, undeniable proof that FIRST is succeeding.

I guess what bugs me is that I keep seeing kids say, "I am JVN" and instead, I want them to say, "I'll be better than JVN." I don't want for people to accept what they have now as the best there can be. I want to know that they're trying to do and be better.

I understand that it's probably implied that they'd all like to do something better than their role models and predecessors, though I wonder where that implication comes from. I'm sure it's something about the wiring in my head that makes it uncomfortable for me, and me alone, but I'd be happier seeing people saying, "I'll be like Amanda Morrison," rather than "I'll be Amanda Morrison." I'd just feel better knowing that the kids see that being like Andy and Raul and Amanda is admirable, but being them is redundant and stunted.

Both the quoted post, and the one written earlier by you, M. Krass, I'd argue, are the two most unfounded, uncharacteristic, unobjective posts I have read this month. However, I could have just read them too quickly.
.
.
.
In conclusion: you are jealous, get over it!

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Arefin Bari

I think i am going to dress up as JVN ... somebody want to tell me his attire?

Think:
Lazy, scruffy, slacker college kid.

You'll about hit the mark.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by JVN

Think:
Lazy, scruffy, slacker college kid.

You'll about hit the mark.

What are you doing??? He's going to college next year.. but if by being lazy, scruffy, and by slacking off he can be someone like you, then why not..

[all in good humor]

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

What are you doing??? He's going to college next year.. but if by being lazy, scruffy, and by slacking off he can be someone like you, then why not..

[all in good humor]

I was talking fashion, not work ethic.
Seriously... slacker is an image.

[Andy Baker]

This is one of the more interesting threads seen in a while.

First of all, some background: 5 teams got together this past Saturday to play a few matches up at Wildstang HQ in Schaumburg, IL. It was an informal event that team 111 hosted with the intent to get teams together and have a bit of fun. Raul and I were the "refs" (more like just score-keepers) of the event. Raul even had a Wildstang-colored hard hat. Thanks to team 111 for hosting, and also thanks to Kyle Love (Kyle45) for instigating the whole thing (way to go, Kyle).

When Raul and I saw each other, both of us wanted to take a picture that mimicked Corey and Bharat's Holloween pic. Honestly, we were both flattered that they dressed up like that a few weeks ago.

Now, as for the comments by Krass. I understood the point and took it as this: Maddie wants students to strive to be better, and not to settle for what is already out there. Krass likes to stir the pot and discuss issues, and this is understood. Heck, I don't want kids making the same mistakes I make, or even doing the same exact things I do. I want them to do better. I also want them to see me as a person that does make mistakes and admits that these mistakes happen.

For me, I have many heroes. However, I really don't pick out one person and say "I want to be just like them". For instance, if I was a basketball player, I would not be able to sit here and say "I want to be like MJ". While Jordan was probably the best hoops player ever, he does other things that I don't want to emulate.

People need to be themselves, and be the best person they can be. They can look to heroes and role models for guidance, but they also need to realize that they are gifted in unique ways and they are simply not going to be just like anyone else. I like Maddie's suggestion of "I'll be better than XXX". This does raise the bar and keeps people striving to improve not only themselves, but also the standard.

Andy B.

[Bharat Nain]

The only reason we did that was to make everyone laugh. Corey, Big Mike[mixture of his idea] I are just the kinda people that love to joke and play around all the time. I'm glad it made you guys laugh.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

The only reason we did that was to make everyone laugh. Corey, Big Mike[mixture of his idea] I are just the kinda people that love to joke and play around all the time. I'm glad it made you guys laugh.

I am still laughing.