Assuming a 3 vs 3

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Bill Gold

2v2v2 allows for the same "ganging up" that occured when it was 1v1v1. Two alliances teaming up to take out the third is lame, imho. I, personally, much prefer the Alliance A vs. Alliance B at a time format.

Let's take a look at some history. Back in the day, when we had the 1 vs 1 vs 1 game format, it was noticed that a regular pattern of the game was to have two teams work together and gang up on the strongest team, take them out, and then leave the two weaker teams to fight for the finish. After two years of this, Woodie Flowers stood up at the kick off and announced "We know that you are unofficially working together to play the game, but without carefully thinking how to make the best of your partnerships. So we figured that if you were going to work together, then we would make it a requirement!" Thus, "alliances" were born and they have been a part of every game since then. In other words, they took a weakness of the game structure and made it into a strength.

So now let's consider the 2 vs 2 vs 2 possibility. Bill and others are probably correct when they posit that with such an alliance structure we would see a repeat of the earlier behavior. The weaker two alliances would probaly gang up on the stronger alliance, take them out, and reduce the game to a 2 vs 2 format through to the finish. But is there a way to make this weakness in the structure into a strength? Actually, it is simple - if you just broaden your imagination and consider what might happen if the alliance structures are not symetrical.

If we know that the two weaker alliances will gang up and create an unfair 4 (2 + 2) robots vs 2 robots situation, then there is one very easy way to restore balance. Imagine what it might be like if the match were designed to have two (weaker) alliances of two robots each, and a third alliance of 3 stronger robots. A 2 vs 2 vs 3 structure could make things very interesting! The team scouts and strategists would have a field day with this one.

But, nah, that is way too complicated. FIRST would never do that to us...

-dave

[George1902]

Originally Posted by Bill Gold

2v2v2 allows for the same "ganging up" that occured when it was 1v1v1.

This all depends on how the game is designed. Imagine:

Three two-team alliances: purple, green, and orange. Three goals to score in: red, blue, and yellow.

The purple alliance's score is the total of the red and blue goals. The green alliance's score is the total of the blue and yellow goals. The orange alliance's score is the total of the red and yellow goals.

Yes, two alliances could team up on the third, but they would need to score all of their points into just one goal to do so. Also, they would have to defend two goals. The third alliance would be able to score in two goals and only have to defend one. They would be at a two to one disadvantage in terms of robots, but would be at a two to one advantage in terms of offensive and defensive objectives.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

Can you imagine the poor announcer on a 3vs3 all on the same field going head to head? He'd be worn out by lunch the first day (What do you think Steve W?). I can more easily see 2 fields running simultaneously. This would be much easier to basically look at the progress of each field and highlight the more functional teams at work. I dunno, but yes this 3 team alliance needs to squeeze every drop out of their picks.
I'll put my Beatty hat on for a 3v3.

My throat hurts already. It's tough enough with 4 teams. I do believe that there will be 6 teams. I do not believe that there will be 2 fields. From what I have heard about the 1x1x1 games and how teams picked on other teams I don't foresee 2x2x2. FIRST has been focusing on team work and having 3 alliances does not seem to go along with that ideal.

PLEASE make sure your robot names and numbers can easily be seen. It would make my job so much easier.

[Conor Ryan]

Originally Posted by Steve W

My throat hurts already. It's tough enough with 4 teams. I do believe that there will be 6 teams. I do not believe that there will be 2 fields. From what I have heard about the 1x1x1 games and how teams picked on other teams I don't foresee 2x2x2. FIRST has been focusing on team work and having 3 alliances does not seem to go along with that ideal.

PLEASE make sure your robot names and numbers can easily be seen. It would make my job so much easier.

Well some of the competitions last year such as Eruption v3 at North Brunswick (#25) had 2 or 3 announcers rotating every 10 matches or so. what about that or having 2 announcers in one match, kind of like in the movie angels in the outfield where they had a switch that controlled either mic

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by cdr1122334455

Well some of the competitions last year such as Eruption v3 at North Brunswick (#25) had 2 or 3 announcers rotating every 10 matches or so. what about that or having 2 announcers in one match, kind of like in the movie angels in the outfield where they had a switch that controlled either mic

Being an announcer at at least 2 regionals in 2005 I know that there are no plans to have additional announcers at the regionals. Announcing is not an easy job. I have done 1 off season event and it was a cakewalk compared to a regional or Championship. I believe that I did an average of 125 - 130 matches per regional.

I forgot to post this on my last post (I'm so bad). The robot size might be changed as per a post by dlavery. I quote :


"Have we considered the possibility that the teams that run up against weight problems each year just aren't taking 130 as a serious limitation until much too late in the process. They tend to do this because they are unconsciously thinking "130 pounds - that's a lot. We don't have anything to worry about - if we run into problems, then we will just cut a bunch of holes at the end." As a result, they don't plan their robot weight budget properly, and have to resort to hacking off entire subsystems or drilling 1482 lightening holes at the last minute.

I think we need to be going the other way. Rather than promote the belief that 130 pounds is a rather generous number, why not reduce the weight restriction to 120 pounds (or less)? I theorize that at 120 pounds, including the battery, nearly all teams will recognize that the weight restriction is a hard problem right up front and will begin to plan accordingly. As a result of the earlier (and arguably better) planning, I would predict that teams will have more weight-conscious designs and the number of last minute "slash-and-hack" weight reduction efforts will be reduced.

So, rather than increasing the weight restriction, we need to decrease it by 10 pounds or so (or just increase the mass of the battery or other non-negotiable parts by 10 pounds while keeping the restriction where it is, which would have the same effect). And then have FIRST throw a copy of the Atkins diet book in with each kit...

-dave"

We'll have to see.