entanglement

[Anthony S.]

originally posted by anomly_rox:
I say we get together in nationals and really get to the bottom of why this was all allowed.

O.K. People lets calm down a little bit. I don't think its that deep for us to get together at nationals and do something, by the time we get to the right people it may be too late. I totally agree that it is wrong but FIRST is human just like us. I realize that there have been many DQ's for many reasons and I realize that there should have been DQ's for some stuff. But think about it, if you were that robot who was DQ'd, you would feel very upset. The ref told us when we were warned that she really did not want to DQ us for illegal contact with the goal because of all the hard work we put into it. I have to admit, when we reacted against the wood of the goal, we should have been DQ'd, but we weren't. So lets not get too angry and lets keep a level head and enjoy this season while it last. I still love FIRST and I'm sure many other people do too.

[Kevin Ray]

Anthony S.

Well said!!!


I think that having a lynch mob mentality when arriving at the Nats is going to solve nothing, albeit satisfying personal frustrations. Many of the teams who should have been DQ'd but weren't have probably learned more from the experience than many care to admit. Folks, we're here to learn and have fun doing it. Please don't lose sight of that.

[Sean_330]

Anthony S.


That was really great what you said. I think cooler heads need ot prevail. The refs in FIRST try hard, but they are volunteers and human like the rest of us. Humans make mistakes. I really hate to see them get bashed. If the enforcement is different in different places, thats just how it is. Life is not always fair and never will be. The most important thing is for us to see past that and let gracious professionalism prevail in all circumstances. The mob mentality will not serve to make things better, rather it will intimidate the very people we respect, who work so very hard to put this competetion on for us. Please everyone, be gracious....


Sean

P.S. Anthony, thanks for having the guts to post what you did. Good Job!!!!!!!!!!!!

[purplehaze357]

*clapping*

very well done....i am in full agreement with both of you, the first experience is about the fun as much as the experience and i think all too often it is lost. The refs and volunteers give time like our engineers out of their lives to help us, the future, so lets show our gratitude by not making a big fuss over the little things.

Good Luck....and remember have fun!

[roboticscom13]

As the creator of this thread i did not mean for it to get out of hand and into a mob mentality sort of way. I totally agree with Anthony Kevin and Sean we do need to calm down. I created this thread because i thought i was missing something in this rule. It would be more unfair if the refs now just started to call the entanglement rule down in Nationals because of the teams that depend on thier tether. I'm sorry if I started up a bad topic but I was just wandering if I was missing something. I didnt want it to sound like I was whining. But you guys are right it is agame and its supposed to be a valuable learning experience and so far it is.

Good Luck to all!!!!!

[Mike Schroeder]

Well our team had a match and at the end of the match we launched our "Mini-Me" and one of our opponents ran over it trying to get entangled but nothing happened so they backed up and did it again and again and then spun around on it finally getting entangled at the end of the match they were DQ'ed for malicious damage when we ask why did they do it they told us they were trying to figure out why they were DQ'ed do teams not know the difference ? just wondering

[Matt Reiland]

I personally don't think driving around on a tether is malicious, no way. We are allowed to run into robots, pull robots (some upside down which seems much more 'malicious') push robots (any contact this year can be considered malicious).... None of this is malicious but then there are these tethers. I don't believe they deserve any special treatment, teams were told to make them robust and non-entangling and they left it at that. If you want to do a 360 on it you should be able to in order to remove the 10 points the tether is giving the other team especially if it is the difference between winning and losing, this is part of leaving a flexible extension of your robot out on the field that can score as many points as a goal or another robot. In one match, we were warned for blocking a tether from reaching home and I think that was ludicrous.

I am not into starting a mob or anything but I think if they are going to let all of these gray area tethers to be out there legal, they should be fair game for everyone who doesn't have a motor on a long piece of wire or an upside down tape measure on their robot. I just want to see consistent rulings at each regional and rulings that are consistent with the way the game was explained.

I am SURE you will see more 'malicious' driving around tethers in the upcoming regionals and Nationals until everyone comes back to reality. And while they are at it maybe they should also start DQ'ing people for ripping up the carpet which I also saw alot of at GLR.

[jasoni]

Well our team had a match and at the end of the match we launched our "Mini-Me" and one of our opponents ran over it trying to get entangled but nothing happened so they backed up and did it again and again

My team was the alliance partner of the team who got DQ'ed. What everyone failed to notice in that match was that the 'mini-me' never scored the 10 points because our teammate prevented it from reaching the zone. Whether they were intentionally trying to get entangled or not, they prevented it from scoring.

I was always under the impression that the tethered devices were the offenders in any entanglement call. I still can't believe that the robot was ruled as the 'entangler' and subsequently DQ'ed.

It will go down in my book as a bad call, and one not congruent with FIRST regulations.

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally posted by jasoni
I was always under the impression that the tethered devices were the offenders in any entanglement call.

This is incorrect. The entangler is the offender in any entanglement call. If a tether is just lying on the floor and another team comes up to pull it out of the endzone, I have no problem with that. In fact, that happened to my team at Lone Star. But if entanglement occurs as a result of that, how can it be considered the mini-bot's fault? The tether was just laying there.

[Amy Beth]

Originally posted by verdeyw


This is incorrect. The entangler is the offender in any entanglement call. If a tether is just lying on the floor and another team comes up to pull it out of the endzone, I have no problem with that. In fact, that happened to my team at Lone Star. But if entanglement occurs as a result of that, how can it be considered the mini-bot's fault? The tether was just laying there.

True dat. Never thought of it that way, but it's a good point.

[Mike Schroeder]

I personally don't think driving around on a tether is malicious, no way. We are allowed to run into robots, pull robots (some upside down which seems much more 'malicious') push robots (any contact this year can be considered malicious).... None of this is malicious but then there are these tethers. I don't believe they deserve any special treatment

well they didn't just get entangled they ripped it right off if it had been any other piece of our robot i would have liked to see them disqualifed for malicious damage as well

[ahecht]

I agree that tethers shouldn't get any special treatment. A tether should be considered just like any other part of the robot -- and should be build to be rugged enough to stand being run over or have 360s done on it. While I disagree with intentional entanglement, I think that ramming and running over a tether comes with the territory. Our tether is build for that -- and I'd like to see someone successfully damage our tether by running it over.

[Turbo]

ok, so, i dont wanna be a nag or anything, but in the semi-finals at silicon valley, there was a little bit of an entanglement. the alliances were 840 (me-aragon high), 192 (gunn) and 814(new technology highschool), vs. 60(Kingman High), 254(bellarmine) and 359(waialua high). our team won the first match, their team won the second match, and in the third match, it was 192and 814 vs. 60 and 254; team 60 had their tether out while they were in a tug of war with 254 vs 192, and 814 was driving around, the ran over 60's tether and something got caught around their wheel, 814's robot was sort of disabled, but not completely, it could inch around but it had LOTS of trouble. we lost the match by 10 pts (21-31?) wich could have been gotten by 814 getting the 3rd goal and moving it from zone 1->2 and giving us 10 points. the judges did not see the wrapped tether around 814 till way later after the team looked at their robot in the pits. but the judges weren't happy. i guess they were thinking about giving us a rematch but it never happened, i guess finals got started too fast or something i dont know the technicalities, but because 814 got disabled it cost us going to finals. we never really got an official ruling on it, the judges weren't very happy with it though. 254 and 60 are well built machines and i wouldnt have minded losing to them if it wasnt for something they could have been d-q'ed for...but it was just fustrating....thats my little story on entanglement.
also- i dont wanna start a big mess on this forum about who should have won the match, so teams 254 and 60 please feel free to contest any part of the story.
-Turbo (814-ART)