ROBOT PICTURES!!!!!!!!

[Tom McCurdy]

I am adding in the descriptions if the team won particular awards... so far all I can find is chairman's award... so the winners of the chairman's award will have it labeld under their robot for that year.

[KVermilion]

Originally Posted by Tom McCurdy

Firstrobotics wasn't the rightful owner of all of those images... and I don't believe anyone went through the process to get an offical copyright on their images... If any teams want their pictures of their robots removed I will. In short I don't believe I did any sort of copyright infringement

So you can re-steal them?

[bradleym1559]

Great website!

[sammy]

I would like you to verify that you have removed the images of those who requested it, and retrieved premission to use the images that were not taken by Jason Randolph. Those people would be

- Cory of team 100, who stated that the images on FIRSTrobotics.net taken by her were not given with premission

- ActiveMX from team 115 in the same situation

- M Krass of team 488 who explicitly denies you premission to use her photograph from FIRSTrobotics.net



An interesting discussion has sprung from this. Next time it would be more professional of you to wait until you have premission to make things public. Part of Gracious Professionalism is thinking ahead, and thinking about the outcomes of your actions. Not just the product, but the whole outcome. This could have been avoided if you had waited a few days to talk to Jason Randolph first, and to check the sources. I would have to agree with Joe Menassa that the best way to do this is to solicit submissions. That way no one's feelings (or laws) get hurt.

That said, nice job, and I hope that a lesson was learned here and can be passed on to others. Please work on making sure all the images are legit.

[Mike Ciance]

very nice site. i like the setup a lot.

[Mr.G]

No, 068 still gives you 1068, but 0068 works.

Thanks for the help.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Tom McCurdy

www.quantumninja.com/firstpictures

When I asked about where I could get some robot pictures I was told www.firstrobotics.net When I went there I was impressed with the massive amount of pictures available, but thought the design could be improved slightly. I spent much of the last couple days dowloading one by one all 1419 pictures on the site. I put them onto a new site that I made for displaying and archiving the pictures. The site allows you view pictures in groups (versus having to load all the pictures in a section) and will be updated constantly. It also looks a little nicer than the firstrobotics site. I will also shortly be adding zip folders of the entire picture collection, and by individual year. The site also allows users to upload pictures, versus having to email the pictures to the guy.

If you have any suggestions please let me know.

I think you will enjoy the new site.

www.quantumninja.com/firstpictures

Wow. The site is very impressive, and it is obvious that you put a lot of work into it. It is very nice, and your efforts show.

However, having said that, there is a real problem. You openly admit that these are not your photographs. You have pilfered them from another site, and are using them without permission and without giving credit to the original photohgrapher/owner. At the very least - and there isn't really a nice way to say this - this is blatant plagarism. You are not crediting the owner/photographer of the image, and leaving the impression this is your own work. All you do is note which team's robot is in the image, but not the person that created the image. In the worst case, it may be a totally illegal copyright infringment and a criminal offense (the fact that an image is not displaying the (c) copyright symbol does not mean that it is not copyrighted; the only way to know for sure is to ask the original photographer/owner). In either case, it is improper. The fact that you put in a lot of work and additional material does not change the fact that the photographs are not yours are you are using them without permission.

Firstrobotics wasn't the rightful owner of all of those images... and I don't believe anyone went through the process to get an offical copyright on their images... If any teams want their pictures of their robots removed I will. In short I don't believe I did any sort of copyright infringement.

Whether FirstRobotics used the images with or without permission is immaterial. YOU do not have permission to use the photographs. Whether the photographer registered the image for a copyright certification is also immaterial. Unless you have direct permission from the owner of the image, or explicit knowledge that they have placed the image in the public domain, then including the images in your public database is improper.

And to top it all off, your home page is particularly inappropriate for an activity like FIRST. Is that the sort of public image that you want to have associated with your team? Perhaps more important, do they want that to be the impression that the public has of them?

-dave

[KVermilion]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Whether FirstRobotics used the images with or without permission is immaterial. YOU do not have permission to use the photographs. Whether the photographer registered the image for a copyright certification is also immaterial. Unless you have direct permission from the owner of the image, or explicit knowledge that they have placed the image in the public domain, then including the images in your public database is improper.

And to top it all off, your home page is particularly inappropriate for an activity like FIRST. Is that the sort of public image that you want to have associated with your team? Perhaps more important, do they want that to be the impression that the public has of them?

Bingo.

That's why I use creative commons for all my stuff. If they hot link the image without giving me credit, modify it, etc... there's hell to pay.

[Tom McCurdy]

I am sorry about your feelings... however these are uncopyrighted pictures. Also I have emailed the owner of www.firstrobotics.net and told him about the site and am waiting for a response. I am also trying to figure out the best way to show some credit to the owner of firstrobotics for collecting the pictures

About the homepage.... umm I share hosting with my friends the quantumninja crew and we a very close group of friends which is what the main site is used for. I recently discovered the homepage picture and am changing it now. I am sorry for those who saw it... it was not associated with the team.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Tom McCurdy

I am sorry about your feelings... however these are uncopyrighted pictures. Also I have emailed the owner of www.firstrobotics.net and told him about the site and am waiting for a response. I am also trying to figure out the best way to show some credit to the owner of firstrobotics for collecting the pictures

About the homepage.... umm I share hosting with my friends the quantumninja crew and we a very close group of friends which is what the main site is used for. I recently discovered the homepage picture and am changing it now. I am sorry for those who saw it... it was not associated with the team.

I'm sorry, but you still don't get it. Just because the site you took the images from did or did not have permission to use them does not make any difference. YOU don't have permission from the original photographer to use them. Even if the FirstRobotics web site has permission to use the photos, they do not have the right to grant you permission to use the photos, unless explicitly granted that right by the photographer. The only photographs that FirstRobotics can give you permission to use are the ones that they took themselves, or ones for which full rights of ownership have been transferred.

Photographs, just like any work of art or written prose, belong to the photographer/artist/author. They may grant others the right to reproduce the works for distribution, but those rights are not transferrable unless explicitly granted by the photographer/artist/author. Unless they specifically give up their rights and place the work into the public domain, they retain all rights of ownership. Whether they go to the extent of filing for a registered copyright doesn't matter - they still own the works. And you must obtain the permission of the owner to use them.

Also, note that all the pictures on that site ARE copyrighted. Just becuase they may not be registered copyrights does not matter. Under the definition of copyright, "copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work... No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright" (reference: 1976 Copyright Act, Circular 1, United States Copyright Office).

Therefore, unless you have explicit permission from the photographer that took the images (and you have made it clear that you do not), then you are committing copyright infringement. And becuase you have not provided appropriate credit to the originator of the photographs, you are committing plagarism.

-dave

[russell]

Well I love the site, but I hate to say it but think Mr. Lavery is right. But please do try to fix these problems, as the site is an excellent resource.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Tom McCurdy

I am sorry about your feelings... however these are uncopyrighted pictures. Also I have emailed the owner of www.firstrobotics.net and told him about the site and am waiting for a response. I am also trying to figure out the best way to show some credit to the owner of firstrobotics for collecting the pictures.

I don't want to rehash a discussion on intellectual property rights because it's something we've examined before. However, photographs are copyright and no formal filing is required. There is a photograph on www.firstrobotics.net that I took and it is not free to use as you please.

E-mailing the host of a website after you've stolen their work shows absolutely no true regard nor care for the work that person did to realize the www.firstrobotics.net site. I would view it as little more than an arrogant insult.

[Joe Menassa]

I myself being a photographer can agree with many of the above comments about copyright infringement. Although I am not positive where firstrobotics.net originally got their photographs from, they may have been submitted from each team, making it totally legit.

I have seen things like this happen on other photography forums and it usually isn't a pretty fight.

What I highly recommend doing is taking down the site for now. -I do like it, it is well done, but you cant just take other peoples photos, especially by stealing off another site.

What you should do is start your own legit site. Either in this thread or maybe start a new one, announcing that you want to make a very organized robot showcase site. Then ask people to email you photos of their robots with proper permission of use. I'm sure people will want their photos displayed on your site, just start from scratch- The way everything should be.

-If I remember correctly, when firstrobotics.net was launched they asked everyone for photos...but I could be wrong.

I know I would gladly send you some photos of the 121 robot when it is completed.

good luck

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Joe Menassa

If I remember correctly, when firstrobotics.net was launched they asked everyone for photos...but I could be wrong.

A lot of the pictures uploaded to firstrobotics.net seem to be from the chiefdelphi galleries. I know that the pictures in there of Team 100 over the last 2 years were submitted by myself to the Chiefdelphi gallery, and not firstrobotics.net, so some if not all of them aren't coming from the photographer.

[activemx]

Originally Posted by Cory

A lot of the pictures uploaded to firstrobotics.net seem to be from the chiefdelphi galleries. I know that the pictures in there of Team 100 over the last 2 years were submitted by myself to the Chiefdelphi gallery, and not firstrobotics.net, so some if not all of them aren't coming from the photographer.

Cory is right, i myself never submited any photographs i took in behalf of 115. I did put it on chiefdelphi, and i did not grant permission to firstrobotics.net to put up the pictures. Since it is just a resource i just left it alone. I think we are taking this matter to seriously. I dont think he has any wrong intentions so i think we should lay off. I do think Tom, you should take down the pictures for the time being and request teams to submit their own pictures. just my opinion.