Go to Post P.S. No matter what happens a build season, you will always have memories. - Briansmithtown [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Motors
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 13:37
Veselin Kolev's Avatar
Veselin Kolev Veselin Kolev is offline
X51 Production Company PGM (TM)
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 253
Veselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond reputeVeselin Kolev has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Ok...

People are starting to panic because it is week 5 now and such motor problems are not appreciated. Anyway. On to the point.

I have been looking around all over the place to find accurate van door specs. I have not found any. All of them are still the same old ones. Which are very wrong. The information in my first post is correct, it was actually measured. However, all we measured was theoretical power and free speed. So.. has anyone measured the actual stall torque, max efficiency, etc? I have lost my confidence in spec sheets.
__________________
X51 Production Company
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 14:39
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
has common ground with Matt Krass
AKA: Mike Sorrenti
FRC #0237 (Sie-H2O-Bots (See-Hoe-Bots) [T.R.I.B.E.])
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 1,003
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

I asked a question about this on the FIRST Q&A System and it was deleted... who knows what FIRST is doing.
__________________
http://www.mikesorrenti.com/
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 17:22
Bolotov's Avatar
Bolotov Bolotov is offline
Assuming a helical robot...
#0115 (MVRT)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Cupertino CA
Posts: 4
Bolotov is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Bolotov
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

So does anyone have the stall torque numbers for the new vandoor? Without it, there is no equation, and without the equation there is no redesign...
__________________
- ...but ze hole point off zuch a divize iz lozt iff you keep eet a ZEKRET! WY DEED YOU KEEP EET A ZEKRET?!!!

- We were going to announce it on Monday's Party Congress. As you know, our Premier loves surprises.

- Bolotov, AKA Lucius Julius Catilina Felix
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 18:12
Elgin Clock's Avatar
Elgin Clock Elgin Clock is offline
updates this status less than FB!
AKA: the one who "will break into your thoughts..."
FRC #0237 (Black Magic)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: H20-Town, Connecticut
Posts: 7,773
Elgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Elgin Clock
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Apparently.. :sigh: I have found something that opens an even more frustrating question to this problem.

http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Specs/Taigene_PSD.pdf

shows the spec for motor number:
Quote:
Specification for motor 16638628 & Specification number 166198


While the motor we received was actually (as shown in the picture below) number 16644829 Rev02.


This irritates me. Did we get the wrong motor? Are the spec sheets on the FIRST website the wrong one?


:sigh:

Can someone else post as to what number their motor says.

Oh, and BTW.. going by the spec sheet that is on the FIRST site, which says 52RPM at 10.5v and 76 @ 12 Volts, then I believe the spec sheet may be right, and we got the wrong motor. Just a thought though.

And, to add to this, I personally checked the voltage at the connection of the Van Door and it was around 12v.

edit: Overall pic of the thumbnail below is found here.
http://www.team237.com/gallery/Build...DR_2250_Medium
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PDR_2250.JPG
Views:	57
Size:	18.8 KB
ID:	2912  
__________________
The influence of many leads to the individuality of one. - E.C.C. (That's me!!)


Last edited by Elgin Clock : 05-02-2005 at 18:16.
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 20:11
Swampdude's Avatar
Swampdude Swampdude is offline
Registered User
AKA: Dan Quiggle
FRC #0179 (Children of the Swamp)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 671
Swampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

I did an RPM check on our kit van motor and it ran 78rpm
__________________
www.179swampthing.org

  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 20:24
Elgin Clock's Avatar
Elgin Clock Elgin Clock is offline
updates this status less than FB!
AKA: the one who "will break into your thoughts..."
FRC #0237 (Black Magic)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: H20-Town, Connecticut
Posts: 7,773
Elgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Elgin Clock
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampdude
I did an RPM check on our kit van motor and it ran 78rpm
Did the sticker on the motor call out the same part number as the one I attached a thumbnail of, or the spec sheet motor? Cause they seem to be two different models, and/or part numbers.
__________________
The influence of many leads to the individuality of one. - E.C.C. (That's me!!)

  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 20:26
Swampdude's Avatar
Swampdude Swampdude is offline
Registered User
AKA: Dan Quiggle
FRC #0179 (Children of the Swamp)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 671
Swampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond reputeSwampdude has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Sorry I didn't check it, but I will tommorow and let you know
__________________
www.179swampthing.org

  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2005, 23:48
Gary Bonner Gary Bonner is offline
Registered User
FRC #3974
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 120
Gary Bonner has a spectacular aura aboutGary Bonner has a spectacular aura about
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

I opened ours up. This year’s has a ~104 tooth worm gear (as best as I can count without complete disassembly) and a worm with two threads for a 52:1 reduction. A prior year’s (with a 75rpm free speed) had a 65 tooth worm gear and a single thread worm. So the speed reduction is not due to the gearing.
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 03:29
Elgin Clock's Avatar
Elgin Clock Elgin Clock is offline
updates this status less than FB!
AKA: the one who "will break into your thoughts..."
FRC #0237 (Black Magic)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: H20-Town, Connecticut
Posts: 7,773
Elgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Elgin Clock
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bonner
I opened ours up. This year’s has a ~104 tooth worm gear (as best as I can count without complete disassembly) and a worm with two threads for a 52:1 reduction. A prior year’s (with a 75rpm free speed) had a 65 tooth worm gear and a single thread worm. So the speed reduction is not due to the gearing.
Ok. What was the part number on the sticker of yours?
__________________
The influence of many leads to the individuality of one. - E.C.C. (That's me!!)

  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 16:39
Biff Biff is offline
Registered User
AKA: Tom Cooper
#1227 (Techno Gremlins)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 214
Biff is a jewel in the roughBiff is a jewel in the roughBiff is a jewel in the roughBiff is a jewel in the rough
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Tested ours, this years 51 rpm battery voltage 12.4, Last years 78 same battery voltage. Both will back drive with a wrench, BTW no speed difference on this years motor forward or backward. Sticker on the motor is similar to one further up in the post. Didn't check the numbers yet. Will do and and edit this post. Ours is the rev 02 and part number 16644829 the same as the pic posted by Elgin Clock post #19
Tom Cooper 1227

Last edited by Biff : 07-02-2005 at 01:13. Reason: Further information
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 20:04
Bolotov's Avatar
Bolotov Bolotov is offline
Assuming a helical robot...
#0115 (MVRT)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Cupertino CA
Posts: 4
Bolotov is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Bolotov
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Wow, our motor number (16640238 rev 4) is different from both the spec sheet and the thumbnail above. Today, we did a whole lot of testing with textbooks and a multimeter on it, and we'll come up with a power curve for this given model, and post it up if anyone cares/is willing to believe our Überghetto experiments. What's really annoying is that there are 4 different models of the "same" motor mentioned in this thread only... What does FIRST have to say on this variety?
__________________
- ...but ze hole point off zuch a divize iz lozt iff you keep eet a ZEKRET! WY DEED YOU KEEP EET A ZEKRET?!!!

- We were going to announce it on Monday's Party Congress. As you know, our Premier loves surprises.

- Bolotov, AKA Lucius Julius Catilina Felix
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 20:40
roboticsguy1988's Avatar
roboticsguy1988 roboticsguy1988 is offline
Larry Johnston
AKA: Larry Boy
FRC #1501 (Team THRUST)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Huntington, IN
Posts: 290
roboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud ofroboticsguy1988 has much to be proud of
Send a message via ICQ to roboticsguy1988 Send a message via AIM to roboticsguy1988 Send a message via MSN to roboticsguy1988 Send a message via Yahoo to roboticsguy1988
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Yeah............ ours was going slower than previous years motors have. i am not sure about the RPM's though.
__________________
Larry Johnston, Team THRUST, Team #1501, Team THRUST webpage

2005 IRI - Imagery and Design Award
2005 - 2006 BMR - Professional Grade Award
2006 BMR - Delphi Driving Tomorrow's Technology Award

"That can't be their 'bot. not nearly enough (if any) rivets to be a 1501 machine." ~ RogerR
~Da team that uses all tha rivets, Team #1501~


The FIRST Software Repository ~ Chief Admin
openFIRST ~ Project Supporter (Former editor)
DMOZ.org - FIRST - US Teams Section ~ Chief Editor
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 20:43
Projectchon's Avatar
Projectchon Projectchon is offline
Registered User
AKA: William Lei
FRC #1009 (Vainer Robotic)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Canada, Toronto
Posts: 64
Projectchon can only hope to improve
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

My reply is a bit off, but...

HOW do you attch the shrift of the Van door to a gear or spock
__________________
Team 1009
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 20:54
Josh Siegel's Avatar
Josh Siegel Josh Siegel is offline
lurker
#0448 (Crandroids)
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
Posts: 67
Josh Siegel will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Josh Siegel Send a message via MSN to Josh Siegel
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Projectchon
My reply is a bit off, but...

HOW do you attch the shrift of the Van door to a gear or spock
We filed/drilled a tiny 'dent' into the shaft and tightened a setscrew into it. There are othe ways, too.

I didn't time our motor, but our arm was geared based on the specsheet and performing exactly as expected (time/torque wise).
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2005, 21:01
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Van Door Motor Problem

We got a full 80 rpm from ours on a charged battery.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Van Door Motor Thermal Overload Protection bigqueue Motors 1 23-02-2004 07:16
Van Door Motor Drawings Jonathanb Motors 9 03-02-2004 18:32
Attn Wildstang: Found your van Wetzel Chit-Chat 4 21-04-2003 21:41
We can't compete, need van door motor archiver 2000 1 23-06-2002 22:59
van door question archiver 2000 1 23-06-2002 22:27


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:12.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi