2005 FRC Team Update 13

[Yan Wang]

 










  
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Special Notices 
Do NOT bring your radios to the Playing Fields for your matches. This year we are
using BANKED RADIOS (our own radios on a stanchion) in preparation for using 24
radio channels at the Championship in Atlanta, GA.

General Notices 
Documents and Updates
FIRST will provide important information to teams via the FIRST web site at:
http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/doc_updt.htm
Please check the team updates portion of the web site on a regular basis to insure that your team does
not miss critical information about the 2005 FIRST Robotics Competition.
Our schedule to publish Team Updates is:
• Tuesday by 5PM and Friday by 10AM. We work hard to meet these commitments.
Unexpected circumstances may, on occasions, delay their publication.
• Additional updates may be released if required.
Question & Answer System
Please review answers to questions in the Question & Answer System daily before submitting a
new question (see instructions below).
The Question & Answer System can be found at: http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/qa.htm
1. Please ask one question at a time.
2. Questions are limited to 240 characters.
Find Q&A Answered After a certain date
Find an Individual Q&A ID
Leave Section set to All Enter question ID # in the ID field
Set Date to After Press Update Filter
Enter the appropriate date in the next field
Leave Search blank
Set Status to Answered
Press Update Filter

 










  
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Section 0 - Introduction
No changes.
Section 1 - Communication
No changes.
Section 2 – Team Organization
No changes.
Section 3 - The Arena

MODIFICATION of: The Human Player Loading Box
See Q&A Items of note below, #1715 and #1721.
Section 4 - The Game

IMPORTANT INFORMATION on: Being in the Loading Zone
See Q&A Items of note below, #1715 and #1721.
Section 5. The Robot (includes the Kit of Parts)
ROBOT

INFORMATION on: Robot Inspection
Remember that the Fix-It window following your robot shipping limits what you can do.
Other Fix-It windows have criteria associated with them as well.
As part of the inspection process, teams will be asked to sign the following pledge:
Team Compliance Statement
We, the Team Mentor, Team Captain and Team Inspector, attest by our signing
below, that our team’s robot was built after the 2005 Kickoff on January 8, 2005 and
in accordance with all of the 2005 FRC rules, including all Fix-It Window rules
(reference Section 5.3.3). We have conducted our own inspection and determined that
our robot satisfies all of the 2005 FRC rules for robot design.
Team Captain: _________________________

 










  
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Team Inspector: ________________________
Team Mentor: __________________________

PROTECT your: Kit Transmission
Please remember to lubricate your transmission to prolong its life… not to mention that it
runs much quieter.
KIT

MORE INFORMATION on: Fisher-Price motors
The 2003 Fisher-Price motor can be used in 2005.
The 2003 F-P motor is a Mabuchi, while the 2004 motor was made by Johnson Electric.
Both motors had the same 19-tooth pinion on them. However, the two motors'
performance data are slightly different:
o The Mabuchi is rated at 150W peak power. Stall torque is 0.383N-m.
o The Johnson is rated at 164W peak power. Stall torque is 0.400 N-m.
Compared to the 2005 Mabuchi motor (at 12V), the above motors are not as powerful as
it is (407W peak), whereas the 2005 motor at 6V is rated at 102W peak.

PICTURE of an: LED robot light (back)

 










  
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Section 6 – Robot Transportation
No changes.
Section 7 – At the Events
No changes.
Section 8 – The Tournament

IMPORTANT INFORMATION on: Match scheduling
In the game of Triple Play, because there are 6 teams on the field at once, the scheduling
of matches is significantly more difficult. In addition, in previous years we have noticed
that there have been cases where a team may not be on the field with one team at all, but
encounter another multiple times. In order to maximize your exposure to other teams, we
have implemented a new match-scheduling algorithm. While this algorithm has
significantly improved performance, it does allow some matches to be scheduled
relatively close together. There may be cases where your team has a match that is 12
minutes after the end your previous match. Please make sure your robot and drivers can
be ready to play in this time interval. Although 12 minutes may seem like a short time, if
you are fortunate enough to make it to the finals, you will have only 4 minutes to be ready
to play again. Also note that 12 minutes is a minimum. In general your recovery time
between matches will be much longer.
Section 9 – The Awards
No changes.
Section 10 - Scholarships
No changes.
FIRST Guidelines, Tips & Good Practices
No changes.

 










  
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E-Mail Blasts Sent Since Last Update
2/18/2005
Several of the Regional "Site Info" sections on the web have been updated since first being
posted. We have identified these in the Team Updates accordingly. Please note there may be
additional edits to "Site Info", so please read your Team Updates carefully!
Some regionals also have Pre-Order Lunch forms that need to be filled out and submitted by
the due dates given. These are found in the "Site Info" sections. You will want to make sure
you have checked through your regional’s "Site Info" carefully for these forms.
All "Site Info" documents are found under your regional’s listing at:
http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/rgevents.htm
Please contact us at frcteams@usfirst.org if you have any questions.
Question & Answer Items of Note

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION on: Q&A #1715 and #1721
Text from #1715
Yes. After attending and receiving feedback from several scrimmages this past
weekend (2/19), we will allow robot-base appendages that are within and remain
within the 28" x 38" dimensions to contact the loading zone and be legal.
Text from #1721
Yes, however, it is important that it be clearly visible to the referees in order to avoid
receiving a penalty.
During the various scrimmages last weekend, it became clear that robots were having
difficulty getting in the loading zones and receiving and retrieving tetras without drawing
penalties. In order to make this more reasonable for teams, we have decided to broaden
the interpretation of the concept of the robot base, as mentioned in Q&A 978 and 1617.
The referees will consider any item contacting the loading zone triangle, that is
clearly visible and within the original 28” x 38” starting footprint, as part of the
robot base. It is very important, however, that it be clearly visible to a referee standing 5
or 10 feet away. An encoder wheel or caster that is under the chassis may not be visible,

 










  
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and as a result, may not prevent the team from receiving a penalty.
In addition, FIRST has decided to make the Human Player loading box larger in order to
give the Human Player more room to avoid robot arms or appendages while they are
loading the robot. This “box” will now be a triangle 48” on a side. Human Players are
encouraged to wear helmets if their robot presents an arm or appendage that overhangs
the outside of the field while it is receiving a tetra.
Finally, Human Players should use the following sequence when loading a tetra in order
to avoid a penalty according to rule <G27>:
1) Step into the loading box. To be in the box, part of both feet must on or over the
box border.
2) Load the tetra on the robot.
3) Clearly and decisively remove your hands from the tetra.
4) Step out of the loading box.
Other Items of Note

NEW SITE INFORMATION for: Several locations
Sacramento Regional – Lunch pre-ordering opportunity
• Now includes the order forms for pre-ordering lunches
New York City Regional – Crate arrival
• The crate arrival deadline has changed.
Philadelphia Regional - Lunch pre-ordering opportunity
• There is updated information regarding a lunch pre-ordering opportunity.
Pittsburgh Regional - Lunch pre-ordering opportunity
• There is updated information regarding a lunch pre-ordering opportunity.
Colorado Regional - Lunch pre-ordering opportunity
• There is updated information regarding a lunch pre-ordering opportunity.
For the links to all events, go to:
http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/rgevents.htm
Teams attending these events should print and distribute the section to team members.

[Paul Copioli]

I want everyone to know that I am fighting this battle separately with my "insider connections" at FIRST (very loose connections, by the way). My basic argument strategy is this:


1. We (FIRST) provided a kit chassis with a recommended configuration and really talked up how great it was for teams. This new interpretation of the rule pretty much makes the kitbot not touching the loading zone when the base is clearly over the loading zone. Is that the message FIRST wants to give teams.

2. A previously illegal kitbot can add a tie wrap hinging from the front center of the drive base and, as long as it can be seen, it now makes the bot legal. Is that the message FIRST wants to send?

3. Robots that use the unmodified kit design and want their wheels to touch the zone must now go into the zone offset, which is less safe than going in centered. Isn't safety one of the concerns?


I am sending FIRST pictures and examples to strengthen my case. This rule was pretty clear until the latest Q&A shenanigans and the latest update. This has taken a game that will be really exciting to a controversial game decided by rule interpretations.

-Paul

[Collmandoman]

well put paul~ thanks for the fight

[Max Lobovsky]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

I want everyone to know that I am fighting this battle separately with my "insider connections" at FIRST (very loose connections, by the way).

Paul Copioli, what are you fighting for, exactly? What do you want the rule changed to?

[Collmandoman]

many people aren't reading this correctly the major problem is this...
you can be all the way to the wall at the loading zone... and not be in the loading zone(because you aren't physically touching the triangle).. it doesn't make sense.. People would interpret this rule to mean ''clearly be in the loading zone and you will be fine''. But as of right now one can not do that because FIRST has been very straight foward in saying you MUST be touching the surface.(so right now you can go to the boilermaker regional and possibly get penalized over and over... then go to peachtree and not be [depending on how interested the refs are int he rule]) The referees dont' have time to look for this, and the way FIRST has suggested to solve the problem doesn't make it any safer for the field crews.
I think a good way to solve this problem would be " Once a team has stopped over the loading zone, and begin to deploy their arm to pick up a tetra - they may not be touched"
But then I personally believe that there should be interference at the auto- loading zones - and the field attendednts should use common sense when replenishing the supply.
Human player zone positive -- can't be touched negative - takes more time
Auto loading zone positive -- takes less time -- can be touched