3/10 UPDATE 15!

[team222badbrad]

http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Upd..._Update_15.pdf

Lots of changes!

[JohnnyB]

Looks good... whipping it into better shape I see

[Brandon Holley]

clarifying our concerns....thank you FIRST

[Andy A.]

Man am I glad for these changes.

The biggest in my mind is the change to a larger human player loading zone on the human side. There was probably over 150 points in penalties given at BAE for human players being outside of the loading triangle or other minor human mistakes. The human player has a tough enough job as it is without having to get into a little triangle. A 48" x 48" square is much more reasonable, even if it does throw off the whole triangle motif of the field.

I also like the clarification on rule <g17>.

-Andy A.

[Yan Wang]

Not so many changes so much as putting into writing what the referees did during the first weekend of regional events.

At FLR, I heard all of this from the referees. They also announced it for drivers during meetings.

[jgannon]

Awarding an alliance the unpenalized score of their opponent (or themselves, depending on which is lower) for RP is a fairly radical change to the ranking system. It's an excellent idea, because your ranking shouldn't be hampered because you played against a really tough team that made a minor mistake.

[AIBob]

Wow! They added colors to the update!

I guess I have to load in the new update to FIRSTsearch.

EDIT:
OK FIRSTsearch now has the Update #15 loaded in and ready to go!
...I should really add that as a cron job too.

[Wetzel]

Thank goodness they removed all the "and the tetra will not be scored" language. It was very difficult for the refs to watch the match AND track which tetras don't count.

Wetzel

[Anthony Kesich]

I think the biggest change is the alliance choosing thing. It removes the whole strategy of making it to the top then choosing your toughest opponent for your partner. It'll make for some intresting finals in my opinion. Plus, we might not hear every single person say, "We graciously accept," anymore.

-Tony K

[sanddrag]

I'm just curious, say you are in the top 8, and you make a pick, but your pick declines, do you immediately get to pick again? I appologize if this was already in the rules and I missed it.

As for the update, I really do like the change from Triangle to square. Even though it doesn't keep with the motif, it is a good change. I saw so many times human players looking down at the floor to make sure they are in the zone, while a point robot arm was right over their head. Hopefully this will no longer be of concern. Also, it is better for people with big feet.

[AIBob]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I'm just curious, say you are in the top 8, and you make a pick, but your pick declines, do you immediately get to pick again? I appologize if this was already in the rules and I missed it.

As for the update, I really do like the change from Triangle to square. Even though it doesn't keep with the motif, it is a good change. I saw so many times human players looking down at the floor to make sure they are in the zone, while a point robot arm was right over their head. Hopefully this will no longer be of concern. Also, it is better for people with big feet.

MODIFY 8.4.1
...
In descending order, each Alliance Captain will invite to join them, a team ranked below them in the standings, which has not already accepted or
declined an invitation, to join an Alliance. The invited Team Representative will step forward and either accept or decline the invitation. If the team accepts, it is moved into that Alliance. If the team declines, it is not eligible to be picked again and the Alliance Captain extends another invitation to a different team. If an invitation from a top eight
alliance team to another top eight alliance team is accepted, the team currently ranked
ninth will move up to become the number eight alliance. If an invitation from a top
eight alliance team to another top eight alliance team is declined, the declining team
may still invite teams to join their alliance, however, it cannot accept invitations from

I am pretty sure that means immediately.

[Anthony Kesich]

It doesn't say, but in former years, if someone declined, the picking team immediately got to repick. If it was different, it would let the #2 team screw over the #1 team, you see what I'm saying.

[Rombus]

The removal of the "This Tetra will not be scored" Brings up some intresting situations, Think about this:
Last 30 seconds, your team sets up a row against your driver station, and a row against the autoloader side of the field, but your missing the one tetra in the corner, Last 15 seconds, you can quickly grab a tetra but you would take a penalty but cap corner, Would you do it?

Well, 2 rows x 10 points + 3 points for the cap = 23 points, meaning you net 13 points after the penality.

intresing

[ahecht]

I have to say I disagree with the addition to G15:

The process of receiving/retrieving a TETRA is completed when the robot leaves the LOADING ZONE.

This means that a robot can grab a tetra from a loading zone, move all but one wheel off of the zone, and cap (since a robot with a moderately sized arm is now within capping distance), and there is nothing the opposing alliance can do to stop them. Personally, I feel that if a robot is in the manual loading station, and the human player is back on the pad (i.e. the robot is enabled), the robot is done receiving a TETRA. Simularly, at the auto loading station, once a robot is "in possession" of a tetra, they are done loading (in possession would be defined the same way it is in football, a robot must be holding or otherwise in control of the tetra),

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by ahecht

I have to say I disagree with the addition to G15:

This means that a robot can grab a tetra from a loading zone, move all but one wheel off of the zone, and cap (since a robot with a moderately sized arm is now within capping distance), and there is nothing the opposing alliance can do to stop them. Personally, I feel that if a robot is in the manual loading station, and the human player is back on the pad (i.e. the robot is enabled), the robot is done receiving a TETRA. Simularly, at the auto loading station, once a robot is "in possession" of a tetra, they are done loading (in possession would be defined the same way it is in football, a robot must be holding or otherwise in control of the tetra),

I understand what you are saying ... but it is a trade-off. In order to watch/see everything going on in this game it will require AT LEAST 12 referees (48 for the Championship). I doubt any regional will be able to field a team of 12 refs. This change takes a bit of the burden off of the refs as it is now clearly defined, and much easier to determine, exactly when the "interference" violation <G15> would be applicable.