What is missing from this years game?

[lsmith243]

I agree... It was reeeeaaalllly monotonous (<- spelling?) until the final matches because it was basically the same thing over and over again, but the atmosphere was really exciting.. Plus most of the people there (with the exception of 99% of the FIRSTers) had absolutely NO clue what was happening most of the time...

[haroony341]

i havent been to a regional yet this year so my mind may change by the end of this week. but right from kickoff i wasnt very fond of this game. 2003 was my favorite year. this game does lack that big finish. i also thought last years lacked one too but what made up for it was all the different ways to score. the finishes werent asbig but they were there. 2003 there was king of the hill. it was exciting everytime. last year there were many was of finishing. hanging, capping, or the human players shooting. this year doesnt seem exciting to me. there is only one major way to score. everyone has the same goals. but i think the playoffs would be exciting where there is crazy stacking going on and its close but my mind could change by the end of this week.

[dpasquariello]

When the game was revealed this year I felt that the excitement of going to the bar (last year) was absent. I realized, however, that there is a need to make significant changes from year to year.

Last year, I watched my son's Rookie team in Manchester, and luckily, in Atlanta. There was plenty of excitement - a robot lifting itself off the ground - wow!

This year I was a spectator at Manchester, and I mentored a Rookie team at UTC. There is excitement this year also, but it is much more dependent on the quality of the match-ups and the skill of the drive teams.

I feel the ease with which penalties are called in this year's game is a real problem. The field is so small that it makes it difficult for the referees to judge whether contact in the loading zone is incidental or intentional. The penalties are so severe, (since point totals tend to be low) that there is no way to know for sure who's winning until the final score is put up on the board.

I'm sure that some penalties occur because of the difficulty of the drivers to have a clear line of sight over the field. I thought that there was an inconsistency in the way penalties were called at the two competitions that I saw. I know that this is subject to rules interpretation by the judges, and they have a difficult job. Basically, I don't think that this year's game is an easy one to judge, and minor differences in interpretation seem to cause a big swing in match play results.

Having 6 'bots in play at once gives everybody more playing time, but the resulting chaos makes it more difficult to follow and therefore to enjoy.

I was also disappointed in how few teams were able to do significant damage in autonomous mode. I suppose that task difficulty can only really be assessed when the matches are played.

Can it be that the game is really secondary? It remains a vehicle for testing the abilities of the team. Our rookie group feels pretty good about the challenges that they met and what they learned along the way. Judging from the smiles, the levels of concentration, and the attitudes that they exhibited throughout the tournament, I think that the prime objective was achieved.

[S.Nickens]

First off, the exciting part is supposed to be over. The six weeks from kick-off to ship is the real challenge, and thus, the real game is over.
However, if the excitement, diversity and ease of understanding from the previous two years is missing, it could have an impact on the future if this years game doesn't have the same effect. While it's great for all the "FIRSTer's" who understand the rules and complexity of the game, the FIRST timers are going to have a tough time getting excited about something they don't understand and can't follow. Our team wound up with a lot more adult mentors and volunteers this year because they got swept up with the intensity and excitement of last years regional events. Some even endured an 18 hour bus ride so they could attend the nationals. From an adult mentor's standpoint, it's hard to see all the parents just drop off their kids day after day, night after night and not bother to get involved and find out what a great program their kids are involved in. It was great to see the reaction of parents who attended their first "robotics competition" and have a look on their face like a five year old at Disneyland. The more people who can be introduced to FIRST in a way they could never expect (a fun and exciting way), the more mentors and volunteers we could draw who would be willing to make the sacrifice of time, money, sleep, nutrition and home repair/remodeling to help nurture and mold the minds that will shape our future. So if you see someone new this year watching with a puzzled look, or about to nod off, do you're best to help them understand the game/rules and get them excited about them competition.
Good luck to all!

[Rafi A]

Originally Posted by S.Nickens

First off, the exciting part is supposed to be over. The six weeks from kick-off to ship is the real challenge, and thus, the real game is over.
However, if the excitement, diversity and ease of understanding from the previous two years is missing, it could have an impact on the future if this years game doesn't have the same effect. While it's great for all the "FIRSTer's" who understand the rules and complexity of the game, the FIRST timers are going to have a tough time getting excited about something they don't understand and can't follow. Our team wound up with a lot more adult mentors and volunteers this year because they got swept up with the intensity and excitement of last years regional events. Some even endured an 18 hour bus ride so they could attend the nationals. From an adult mentor's standpoint, it's hard to see all the parents just drop off their kids day after day, night after night and not bother to get involved and find out what a great program their kids are involved in. It was great to see the reaction of parents who attended their first "robotics competition" and have a look on their face like a five year old at Disneyland. The more people who can be introduced to FIRST in a way they could never expect (a fun and exciting way), the more mentors and volunteers we could draw who would be willing to make the sacrifice of time, money, sleep, nutrition and home repair/remodeling to help nurture and mold the minds that will shape our future. So if you see someone new this year watching with a puzzled look, or about to nod off, do you're best to help them understand the game/rules and get them excited about them competition.
Good luck to all!

I can understand your concern about parents, but all of the parents that came with us to the St. Louis regional picked up the game very quickly. They also got very enthused and excited, which was awesome. I can't even begin to explain how good it made me feel to see that "Disneyland" look on thier faces.

[Doug G]

Yes, 2003 was the best at being a great spectator game. But we just got to remember that the best way to enjoy the game is to get involved with a team as Nickens said. For the parents and visitors that came to watch us at our regional, those that really dug it, we're the same ones who came to the kickoff and on weekends to help. My brother-in-law came by to check things out and he didn't seem that thrilled - but that was his first experience to FIRST.

I don't think FIRST needs to be a great spectator sport, if that were the goal, the game would never change, most teams would be "losers" and they'd charge admission (sometimes I think that might be good).

[S.Nickens]

Originally Posted by Rafi A

I can understand your concern about parents, but all of the parents that came with us to the St. Louis regional picked up the game very quickly. They also got very enthused and excited, which was awesome. I can't even begin to explain how good it made me feel to see that "Disneyland" look on thier faces.

My concern was with the students, but the the parents can help the program grow by also getting involved.

[Greg Needel]

i think the onlything missing from this game is a multiplier...i think it would be cool to have a differnt color tetra (maybe the vision tetras) act as multipliers for the tetras of that color on a goal. it definatly would add an extra kick to the game

[tml240]

well 2000vfr800 has a good point about ppl off the street being interested about FIRST (which is the point of FIRST, make ppl -- outside tech -- get inspired and excited about technology and its fun), but since I have not been to the regional yet and have not heard off 'off-street' ppl, I will make my comments on the game later on.

interesting thread tho

[Don Wright]

I really want to thank everyone here for posting their thoughts on this subject. I really had no idea it would draw so much interest. And thanks for keeping it very civil. I appreciate it.

[Jack Murphy]

This game is…

Awesome!

1. It’s up to us to help Grandma understand and score. Maybe someone with skills can draw up this idea as a one page hand-out for upcoming regionals.
After about three matches at GLR I realized counting tetras was difficult. Instead, I would cancel tetras. First, count rows scored, one team will usually end up plus 1, plus two etc. Then start with tetra’s, one red cancels one blue so you only have to count plus one, minus one etc. Often the home rows would cancel each other entirely. After lunch on Friday I was able to know who won 90% of the time in about 5 seconds.
2. The refs and the teams improved hugely between week 1 and 2. Many teams were able to go through an entire comp with no penalties. The refs got a lot more comfortable with interpreting the rules. In one match a GLR a team got clobbered in the Auto load zone. The ref asked if their intent was to load and they graciously said no. There was no penalty. (They lost the match). I don’t think that happened in week one.
3. I’m really looking forward to week 3 and beyond, Good Luck to all teams.

[Validius]

this game was amazing... i loved it

[Vin211]

Hmm I can name one this about what is missing. The ability to throw the tetra. Have you noticed in the past couple years Human Players have been able to toss a ball or some sort of round object. I guess you could throw a tetra but that would probably be kind of dangerous.

[Don Wright]

I agree that this game is exciting. I think it's cool and a great challenge to score, and to see teams do it effortlessly, really impresses me. And, there was excitement at our regional...

But, I still think it has a lot to do with the fact that we (as FIRSTers) know the game well. And we know how amazingly hard it is to build and program a robot to find a vision tetra, let alone cap one in autonomous.

But, to the casual observer off the street and to younger kids we want to inspire, it seems repetitive and lacking of an exciting ending. One person even mentioned, "They just kept doing the same thing over and over again...just putting the triangle things on top".

Again, I am just relaying the comments I got.

[Tamster548]

IMHO (I was at GLR too), I understand what you're saying about it being boring after awhile and everything, but I think it's the game itself that you are talking about. For our parents, friends, and sponsors, it was the atmosphere that interested them (loud music, funny mascots, the pits, the cheers...) because a lot of them don't picture robotics to be like a sports event. That's my take.