Coaches and the starting line

[Swampdude]

I hate to ask this, but I've searched Q&A and re-read the rules regarding coaches and the player starting line. I see nothing written stating coaches cannot cross that line "ever". Yet I've heard it now from 2 regionals that refs were telling coaches their team would get disqualified if the coach crossed that starting line during a match. I don't know how it got started but I'd like it to get cleared up before our next comp. Hopefully someone from FIRST will see this and broadcast it to the refs that this rule doesn't exist. Or do I need to practice my downhill skiing stance?



This guy on the right has a good duck foot thing goin, but the other 2 - rule breakers?

[henryBsick]

The way I understand it, that line is only "there" for the first 15 seconds of the match, autonomous mode. Once auton. is over the line "disappears" and there is only the station's box that limits the motion of any of the floor crew members per team per station. Basically, I agree I don't think, other than the general parameters of the driver's station that there is a limit as to where the coach may move.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

If this happened at 2 regionals, I would like to know if anyone got an explanation from the head ref. If you did, what rule did they cite, or what was their reasoning?

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Ogre

If this happened at 2 regionals, I would like to know if anyone got an explanation from the head ref. If you did, what rule did they cite, or what was their reasoning?

That happen at the NJ Regional too.

[Lisa Perez]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

That happen at the NJ Regional too.

Also, the Great Lakes Regional.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Lisa Perez

Also, the Great Lakes Regional.

Weird. I never heard that and was constantly across the line coaching and never DQ'd or warned. I know I was because I stabbed the plexi once pointing to a goal we really needed.

[Mark McLeod]

We were cited for one foot fault by our coach, but that was for stepping on the larger outside bounding line, never for stepping close to the drivers. It's very hard to check scoring of the floor tetras or to see low-down action up against the wall without stepping closer to the windows.

[Steph]

At both Pittsburgh and Waterloo I was never spoken to or warned about being over the "starting line", and I stand right between our drivers, spending the entire match over it. I would also like to know if there's an explination for the two regionals it happened at, as we still have one left to attend. Interesting...

[slickguy2007]

Another thing that happened was that when we tried to start with the tetra at the beginning of the match. At NJ, we were allowed to position the tetra on the robot so that it leaned on one of the goals(we were allowed to do this according to the refs). At the Buckeye regional the refs told us that this was illegal and that the NJ refs weren't following the rules. I am a little confused about all of this. This was a little disheartening to hear because we started to base our autonomous off of what the NJ refs told us. We had to change our autonomous at the Buckeye regional.


GO 1403!!!

[DarkJedi613]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

We were cited for one foot fault by our coach, but that was for stepping on the larger outside bounding line, never for stepping close to the drivers. It's very hard to check scoring of the floor tetras or to see low-down action up against the wall without stepping closer to the windows.

We were? When? I don't remember that - I hardly ever move from inbetween the drivers. (I'm the coach in the middle of that picture there). What do you mean by "foot fault" anyway? A penalty? If so, definitly not - I would have remembered that. No ref ever said anything to me anyway.

I heard from some other teams' coaches that coaches can't step over the line, but the refs never said anything to me at LI or PA and I'm constantly over the line. I also asked at LI specifically where I'm allowed to walk once the match starts (as in, am I allowed to walk next to my alliance partners), and the answer I got was I had to be within the large box.

[meaubry]

All - I also am not aware of any rule regarding coaches and the autonomous starting line. In fact a Q&A on the FIRST site responded that coaches may go any where within the boundaries - that is why there isn't 3 separate sections.
A coach, clearly, cannot touch the controls - but a foot violation of a rule that doesn't exist?
Please - someone must stop this kind of activity. It doesn't do anyone any good to get a penalty for a rule that is made up by someone without FIRST sanctioning the new rule and posting it for everyone's awareness.
Until it is cleared up - every coach out there must now ask the ref's watching the drivers station what they intend on calling. There are much bigger issues out there, those that make a difference or give a competitive advantage. Rule violations and penalties for actions like this MUST stop.
During our first competition we had to request clarity as to when the drivers could touch the controls. The clock timer on the display at the end of the field or the sound of the bells? Once that was understood, the drivers foot position before autonomous ended was the focus of attention - but never, never, never, in all the years that I have coached, has there been a rule about where the coach can put their feet.
It is up to us to request clear communication - alter behaviour accordingly. Bring up the concerns and issues in an appropriately profession manner and hope that FIRST steps in and assists the ref's in understanding and executing only those that they have sanctioned.
Can anyone please tell us what was the rationale used for calling the violation? Bharat or Lisa?? I don't doubt your word, but can you give first hand dialog between the ref that called it and the coach it was called on?
And - the ruling about tetra positioning was correct at Buckeye (you can't use the goal or playing field to position the tetra) - only your robot.

[Lisa Perez]

Originally Posted by meaubry

Can anyone please tell us what was the rationale used for calling the violation? Bharat or Lisa?? I don't doubt your word, but can you give first hand dialog between the ref that called it and the coach it was called on?

Just for clarification - a referee came over to me at the end of our first match (also the first match of the regional), because I had been over the line coaching for the entire match, and told me as a warning that coaches were by no means allowed over the line. No justification, though.

We did not receive any penalties for that "infraction".

[Ryan Morin]

At the UTC Regional one of the refs told me during our first round that I couldn't cross the line, but after he went to the head ref then came back to me and told me that he was wrong that I could cross the line. So I guess that they aren't very clear on that situation with the refs also.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

If you were told that you couldn't cross the line, and knew that it sounded bogus, why didn't you go ask the refs right after they told you that?
As a coach, you should know the rules best. If the refs told you something that you don't think is in the rule book, it is your responsibility to ask the refs for clarification. That includes them reading the rule to you and explaining themselves.

[Swampdude]

I got word of it right before our match started, then chased off the field into the pit and forgot about it till later. But you're right, that would have been my normal procedure. I think also in the back of my mind, with all the crazy penalties, I didn't want to open that can of worms up with the refs. Play dumb and maybe it will go away. In the pace these competitions move at, challenging the refs usually doesn't happen anyway. For instance we coasted across the finish line after the buzzer and were told it didn't count and the rules supported that. But there's nothing specific about not counting that (I don't think). I'm the type to keep my mouth shut and try to respect whatevers said - but not second hand stuff like that.