Disappointing year for Incredible Drive Systems

[bhweezer]

Originally Posted by CyberWolf_22

Robots on all alliances pushed others around the field and there were some mistakes when a robot was tipped over but I do not believe that a robot tipping over should be an automatic penalty on the defensive team.

I agree with you that just by tipping a team over you shouldn't get penalized, but the team you were referring to continuously rammed robots all day. I wasn't surprised when they received that penalty. The first minute of the match they were hitting us and the last minute they were hitting our alliance members. I don't believe the penalty was called just for them tipping over 57, but for the hitting that occured the whole match.

1255 proved how effective a defensive robot can be. They prevented us from capping a lot of goals.

[mtaman02]

well in any case i do hope that FIRST uses the same kit for next year since it seemed in my view as a big success you just need the right game to really benefit all the good stuff such as defensive plays and offensive plays.

[KarenH]

The Beach Bots would have liked to try a new, highly maneuverable drive system this year, but the wheels got held up in manufacturing. As it was, we went with a six-wheel drive system that was new for us.

At the Southern California Regional, the play became much rougher, even wild, in the elimination matches. We had a lot more ramming and tipping than in the qualification matches. In one match, another robot's arm became entangled with Beach Bot's arm. Beach Bot started dragging that other robot around the field, and the two robots had a sort of wrestling match until a minor part on Beach Bot's arm broke. Then they continued normal play.

[looneylin]

At philly, some of the robots were built for defense. like team 358 was awesome n 1402. so i thought, from our regional, that there was a fair amount of pushing n shoving when it came to tetra blocking.

n i actually wished we would have built a better drive system, but instead we had omni wheels which was really bad in terms of pushing. but if we did have a better drive system, i think we would have been more defensive

[dude__hi]

Our team's robot was made specifically for defense and worked great at it. It was not a rammer but more of a moving roadblock, a very fast one too. With a 2 speed transmission, 2 omni drive wheels, 4 pneumatic tires and all wheel drive i'm glad we chose a defensive strategy that can also score points by placing tetras underneath. On the plus side no penalties.

[roboticscom13]

There have been some incredible drive systems created this year. Team 190, 211, and 357 omni directional drive trains using a mechanum wheel. I believe if not all 2 of these three teams won one of the engineering awards. If you have not seen any of these three teams, what a mechanum wheel does is it is designed to slip under friction so that the robot can move laterally. However unlike an omni wheel, the mechanum wheel in fact is hard to push side to side. See the thread posted below for a picture and some better descriptions. Even though you guys may have an awesome gear box that has multiple different speeds, and can shift on the fly, it has been done before. While you guys built what sounds to be a very nice and robust drive-train, people, unfortunately, do not see the big deal in just reproducing something that has been done.

This does not mean that you have to get all discouraged about it. It just means you may have to work a little bit harder to find something new and apply it towards your goal. Trust me if you are going to Nationals, you will be able to show off the potential of your drive-train.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=pic%3A+Jester

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Waynep

According to rule G25 and from most other Regionals, any wedge that goes under a robot and tips it is illegal and should be DQed. Tipping a robot with a wedge is just as bad as those that ram at high speed. Please note that pushing low with a flat surface and pushing low and upwards are different. Robots with a wedge please be cautious and gracious when you play, all the teams have worked hard to play and should be allowed to play the entire match with their robot upright.
-wayne

302 was getting in trouble for thier robot design and playiing style and had to make adjustments for day 2 of Buckeye so they wouldn't get penalized so much.

[Ian Curtis]

I have a video on my computer from the first week of regionals and I see plenty of contact from that. We got tipped 3 or 4 times (we had a high CG but only twice when we went over was it becuase of normal interaction). Also I have videos of us getting spun around in a circle on our front omni wheels. And finally I have a video from a team with 4 wheel omni drive that just slid across the field with a shove. So originally there was contact. Just with so many penalties involving defense it is becoming harder and harder to pull it off penalty free.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

On the same size of field with 50% more robots, I never in my wildest dreams could have imagined that the robots would be so shy about touching each other. This is probably due to penalties but that is left for a different thread.

Right after kickoff I thought since every team had been given a really nice four motor drive system that was relaible and could be working on day one, we needed to have something MUCH better to be on top. Was I ever wrong. I think even just anything that moves can play the game the way it is being played. I never could have imagined so much non-contact action. To me, six motor and/or shifting drives do not seem beneficial at all. I wish I could have predicted this right after kickoff, I imagined double-teaming strategies and everything.

It is disappointing because the teams that strive to create a magnificent drive system are not rewarded because they are not being challenged by other robots in the match. Everyone does their own scoring in their own area and little is done to keep others from scoring.

Some teams strive for maginificence and succeed, but in the end, it does not feel worth it.

you're right in one respect; anything that moves can play the game. it was designed that way. but it takes something more to excel at it.

in the past a powerful drive train could probably win you a match. this year's game demanded more from a drive train. it has to be maneuverable, controllable, fast, and able to stand its ground. look at 67, 71, and 111. those are some of the most magnificent drive trains i've ever seen. likewise, i've seen very few matches where everyone was "shy about touching each other". but they are darn careful. in this game, knowing when and how to play defense is just as important as how much power you can put on the floor.

[Jojo2k1]

Thanks to 1138 and 702. You guys were great. This is is for us this season, but we hope to see you next year. I agree with RogerR this years game needed more from the drive system than just power. Our system's maneuverable, controllable, and fast, but against defense robots we had trouble staying under control. Also we kept riding up on other robots in certain matches in Sacramento and SoCal.

[StephLee]

Our team didn't have much contact as we weren't asked to play defense much, but one match another team was guarding us. Our driver kept moving, and we didn't slow down much, just pushed them across the field like they weren't even there. I thought it was absolutely exhilarating to see our robot do that. It wasn't the fact that we pushed them around, it was the fact that they didn't affect us much at all.

[JohnBoucher]

I congraulate FIRST for leveling the playing field this year, by providing all teams with a very servicable drive train right out of the box. This allows for an exciting game even for rookie teams. I hope I'm not hearing that the kit was too good this year.

[MasonMM]

I've seen teams with excellent drive trains take the win and play successfully. It's not the drive train thats getting teams penalized... it's the strategy. Teams use their speed to fly across the field and cap tetras or get in the way of other teams... and then when the they are about to get a push from the other team they can use to drive train to hold their ground or keep the opponents from advancing. I'd expect that if you hit other robots excessively or shove teams across the field with your beastly drive train then you'd incur some penalties, because that is not what the game should be about. Playing defense doesn't mean slamming the other robot around, it simply means graciously preventing them from accomplishing their task. You can do that with out shoving them across the field or heavily ramming them.

With my team, we have an excellent swerve/crab drive system. It took alot of time to design and engineer. I would definitely say it's incredible and it surely hasn't been a disappointment. But for defense we have taken a different approach to stopping the other team. We use our arms to steal tetras in the air from teams or lay our arms over the goals to block them from capping that specific goal.

[angelofsumthin]

see our team was all excited for our two speed gear boxes this year and it turns out we never use them and sumtimes they hurt us becuz we forget to put the air in for them to be engaged and then we cant drive just with the huge tetras and the robots in the loading zones this year's game is not a big driving game it kinda disappointed me but its still exciting just different

nationals here we all come

[newton418]

At the Lone Star regional competition I saw a lot of pushing in the matches we were in. One of the guys on our team spent a lot of time working on our drive train and I really think it gave us a huge edge. One thing we did was we would get the back left or back right goal, which allowed us to make many more rows. Having a strong drive train really helped us get back where we wanted to go without wasting all our time. Also, in the semi-finals we had a robot harassing us like crazy. Luckily it didn't drastically impair our performance, though we did have to make some quick repairs right afterwards.