Lessons learned 2005: The negative

[Spikey]

Not a lot of gripes, most have been stated already but from what I noticed that on the Newton field the refs were being very stingy with penalties. I saw a lot of things happen that would have been called a penalty at a regional, but they did not make the call at Newton field, especially tipping!
Not to harp on penalties again but the 30 point penalty for hitting a robot is a little extreme, especially when its unintentional. We were in the QF at Newton and as we were backing up from a goal we brushed a robot in the loading zone, 30 point penalty, it was not malicious, it did not endanger the human player, its hard to see all the way on the other side of the field. The penalty cost our alliance the match and I don't like the idea of penalties being that severe. When they had floppies and HP interaction with robots they had very few penalties at all and at most they were 10 point penalties. When the penalties cost as many as 10 tetras it becomes unproductive, and makes the game less exciting.
Maybe FIRST should reconsider how much weight the penalties are given. Other then that I had a lot of fun

[ChrisCook]

I found that you need to find a balance with the team. This was the first year we brought back our team and it was unspeakablily hard to do school, X-C and run a full time "Circus" the hardest thing was trying to find what everyone was good at. everyone wanted to be on the computers, and in return we finished as the truck was pulling up. Our team offically had 30 people on it but there we really only 5 people who decided to do the work.
If anyone has suggestions about organizing the team so that it will function on its own, without mentor or a single person handling it. I am will ing to listen.

Chris

[devicenull]

The pits:
Too far away. Closer then last year for people, possibly for robots also, but its simply too far away. I *believe* there is a large parking garage next to the stadium. Whats wrong with having them there, assuming you put some kind of weather protection up?
Don't let spectators into the pit, but don't restrict the teams from having people in the pit. Possibly distribute the wrist bands the first day, and require them to be allowed into the pit. I saw lots of little kids running around, with robots moving all over the place and power tools in use. Not a good thing, more so when you are pushing safety this year.

Comptetion:
An overhead camera might be better for displaying the matches on the screens.
Posssibly have an offical video recording of all the matches. We had one match where the scores were totally wrong, and they wouldn't let us argue it (They said we had 9 points, when we were able to score 12pts at one time, no penalties that match)
Closing ceremonies was way too long. I was falling asleep sitting there.
Provide a place down on the floor for teams to cheer. Teams standing every match made it hard to see.
Stagger the lunch times. Waiting in a 40 minute line for food is not acceptable. This is perhaps the easiest thing to do, and I hope someone from FIRST takes notice.

Other:
We had run a Cat5 cable through our hotel hallway.. it was on the side of the hallway, and only ran infront of our rooms, but some team kept yanking on it, then I heard them talking about cutting it. Not a good thing to be doing.
Ramps on robots shouldn't be allowed, imo. We don't want to flip anyone by accident.
Expand the aisles between the pits. It was a bit hard to get through them when you had teams gathered outside their pit.

Originally Posted by suneel112

The only real complaint I had was that huge black tarp at the top of the Georgia Dome. I don't know about the rest of you, but I like sunlit robot matches.

The CMU camera does not deal well with changing lighting conditions. It would make it useless if the matches were lit by the sun.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Briefly about penalties. Teams didn't have 4 months to figure out what would and wouldn't be penalized. The penalties were changing up until the Driver's Meeting on Thursday where it was announced that a robot could, in fact, sit in a loading zone and score on the nearby goal with utter impugnity. Contrary to the original statement in the rules that loading zones aren't meant to be safety areas to protect a team while they were doing things besides loading a tetra.

Kudos to Kim for #6, though. That's a great idea.

Also, growl on people still complaining about Houston. It wasn't Houston's fault and I really wish you'd stop it already.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

one thing i regretted the most was. the 40 minute waste of time for the robot to go out to the match, wait, play the match and then return to the pits. I had our robot stay out by he filed for a few matches on Friday and i thought it was a great idea until i realized thee is no one in the pits to talk to judges or other teams. this problem should be addressed. the walk for the robots was horrible but not the walk for humans. i believe the walk for robots should/must be shorter then humans. good day. im tired.

you obviously didnt go to Houston... (a measured mile)

[Koko Ed]

Things that did not go so well this year were..
- The scoring software. It really damaged the flow of the cometition and often sealed off the flow of information on alot of regionals.
- The penalties. The 30 point penalty is perhaps a bit excessive considering it's harder to score this year.
- The return of Sir Charles. 'nuff said.
- The lack of respect the animation, website, Inventor and Woodie Flowers award got at the championship. What they're not good enough for the main award cermony?
- The finals were too long. Those two speeches did not help. The flow was all out of whack.
- The food at the afterparty was not so hot.

[xzvrw2]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Things that did not go so well this year were..
- The scoring software. It really damaged the flow of the cometition and often sealed off the flow of information on alot of regionals.
- The penalties. The 30 point penalty is perhaps a bit excessive considering it's harder to score this year.
- The return of Sir Charles. 'nuff said.
- The lack of respect the animation, website, Inventor and Woodie Flowers award got at the championship. What they're not good enough for the main award cermony?
- The finals were too long. Those two speeches did not help. The flow was all out of whack.
- The food at the afterparty was not so hot.

I would have to agree with everything except the last one. I liked the food at the after party. As for the finals, my team took our seats at around 3:30, the championship match did not start until around 7:00. I think that was way to long. Also, in regards to the 30 point penalties, if you got that, you automatically lost the match. I think that is very unfair.


Stevie

[Mini-D67]

Originally Posted by xzvrw2

Also, in regards to the 30 point penalties, if you got that, you automatically lost the match. I think that is very unfair.

Thats not always the case. I remember one finals match where one team got a 30 pointer and still won by 10...

The only thing I didn't like this year was the lack of calls on ramming/pinning. Not once did I see a 10 pointer thrown for ramming, nor did I ever see an acurate count on pinning. Those are my 2 major driver pet-peeves...

Other than that, I love this years compitition!

btw, Sir Charles rules!

[omutton]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

- The food at the afterparty was not so hot.

Yah I agree. The potato wedges looked and tasted like they had been in my fridge for a week. Everything cooled down so fast because it was cold outside.

I also think that all announcers should announce who got the penalties and why they were given out, like Steve W does. That is so much easier than asking the head ref.

[Ellery]

Awards - We were finalists in Archimedes and the trophies and medals were not presented properly and do they still give out finalist banners anymore or did they forget to give it out too?

After Party- I was alittle disappointed that the food went down hill from its inaugural year. I hope this trend doesn't continue.

I missed the fried Chicken and peach cobbler.

Other than that I was pretty pleased.

[suneel112]

The only real complaint I had was that huge black tarp at the top of the Georgia Dome. I don't know about the rest of you, but I like sunlit robot matches. As for the game, I agree that there were less things to do than last year, but there were also advantages. The penalties were a definite advantage over last year, because defense should not include ramming or tipping over.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by suneel112

The only real complaint I had was that huge black tarp at the top of the Georgia Dome. I don't know about the rest of you, but I like sunlit robot matches. As for the game, I agree that there were less things to do than last year, but there were also advantages. The penalties were a definite advantage over last year, because defense should not include ramming or tipping over.

I totally disagree, the sun last year was horrible for photos, your eyes, and everything. It made the compeition look bland and washed out, not this year. Plus, remember, we had vision cameras that needed specific calibration for light conditions, with the sun roof that would change by the minute, if not second.

[Andy Baker]

I would like to make a suggestion to each person who is trying to be constructive in improving how FIRST does things in the future. Make a clear, concise, written & pictorial proposal to FIRST. Include your issue, your solution, and your analysis. Be sure to add pictures, graphs, and drawings if needed. It would be best to limit your proposal to 3-4 pages.

For instance, the one big problem I had this year with the robot rules was that FIRST mandated all teams to have the SLU-70 connector lug. While this connector was fine for teams who did not have a better way to crimp large wires, it is NOT GOOD for teams who have a better system.

As an inspector at the Boilermaker Regional, I had the honor of making the 4-time world Champion, team 71, change their battery and large wire lugs from their tried-and-true crimps to these inferior SLU-70 lugs. They knew that they had a better way to do it, as did I.

However, I can't just complain about it to FIRST. I need to present the issue, make tests, show analysis, and present a better solution. We will be working on this analysis and solution during this "off-season".

Some of these complaints are just silly. "Make the walk between the pits and the field shorter". OK... how is that fixed? Do we put the pits on the next to the nacho stands in the dome concession walkway and then have the drive team carry the machine down the steps to the floor? Do we smash the Convention center into the side of the Dome to save us a couple hundred steps? Please... give us a better solution.

So... go ahead and make your complaints. However, you better back your complaints up with some constructive solutions that work.

Andy B.

Penalties i think was very high this year compared to other years in the past.

[mathking]

There was a point at our first regional that I stopped counting tetras, as the outcome of so few matches actually matched what was on the field at the end of the match. Between the penalties and the rules that gave a team a goal when the other team knocked the tetras off of it, people in the stands couldn't tell you the score or the outcome of the game until it was put up on the board. It makes the game very tough to coach and very hard to explain to spectators, not to mention frustrating for the teams.

I thought that the solution they used of replacing descored tetras on the goals after the match to indicate ownership took care of this problem pretty well. I know on Friday afternoon and Saturday they were doing this. I found that it was not difficult to figure out the score (except for penalties) once they adopted this methodology.

As for a coach figuring it out, it will be difficult. The coach has to not only see the field as is but also pay attention when a tetra is descored and ownership of a goal passes to one alliance or the other. I don't think it is possible for a 100% or even 95% accurate system. Even with RTS the scorers don't know what judgements the refs will make and can't always see the goals. Even if you had one scorer/goal there would be discrepancies.