Cheering, standing ovations, and required team actions during matches and awards

[Kevin Sevcik]

Ah. I finally have it. It's pretty simple, too. It boils down to a few questions: Given the standard definition of GP, would it make your grandmother proud if you were standing in front of her blocking her view of your robot? Would you make her get up and move? Would you be upset with her if she just clapped politely and didn't stand and scream for every award?

Just things to keep in mind when you're cheering or you're judging someone else's enthusiasm.

[Jverdon]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster.

I agree, our team was always standing whenever our Drive Team and robot was around. We also were one of a few teams that gave standing ovations for award winning teams on Newton, i was very suprised to see veteran teams sitting and not cheering. We are a very spirited team and love to cheer, scream, and yell. We were told numerous times by another team that was sitting behind us to sit down, this was distressing for me because like i said we love to cheer. A judge at LSR described are team as the team with the Pshyco Fans, wich we take as a great complement.

[Greg McCoy]

Enthuastic cheering for other teams...man, what a bunch of jerks. Haven't these people heard of gracious professionalism?

At many sporting events (the Indianapolis 500 comes to mind), all of the spectators stand at exciting points such as during the start and finish of the race, or when something exciting happens on the track. Nobody tells anybody else to sit down...if you want to see, you have to stand up too! Why should FIRST be any different?

Perhaps a location should be reserved for scouts or media people wanting to videotape matches, but for the most part complaining that you can't see because other teams are cheering seems silly. Especially during the award ceremonies...what exactly did you want to see, anyway?

[Kevin Sevcik]

I have a perfectly easy and logical solution to this whole problem. We'll take the Texas A&M method of having everyone stand for the entire game/day.

Seriously, though, I have no problem with standing Os and people cheering and stuff, but some consideration needs to be given to the people behind you. There are older and/or less able mentors in the stands and you could be sitting in front of them. If someone asks you to please sit down, think about doing so. Don't assume they're not standing just because they're lazy or not spirited. If you had a teammate with a busted knee or ankle, you wouldn't make him stand up every other match so he could see, would you? Or would you make him get up and change seats every few matches so you wouldn't be standing up in front of him? Like much of life, there's a balance to be struck between your own needs and desires, and those of others.

[Travis Hoffman]

My personal preference is that we try to separate the act of cheering from the act of standing. The conflict here between those with differing viewpoints is being caused by the act of people standing up and blocking the view of those behind them. I think everyone agrees that cheering and shouting and waving your hands and clapping are all healthy and GP activities. However, whether it is done with the best of intentions, considerate or inconsiderate, rehearsed or unrehearsed, standing up frequently DOES cause problems at times for people sitting behind you. Societal norms have been established which dictate that the "standing ovation" is somehow more respectful than clapping and cheering while sitting down. I tend to say pish-posh to stuff like this. If the most important thing to a team who just won a major award is to look up in the stands and count how many people are standing up in the seats to congratulate them, that's pretty sad - they should be jumping and cheering and celebrating their victory with their teammates. Now the CLAPPING AND CHEERING of the crowd - that's a truly great thing that can further fuel the emotions of the winners and make it a truly memorable experience - that's the key part of being respectful at these competitions.

When my team won the Regional Chairman's Award in Cleveland, and I went down to receive my medal with the rest of the team, I do not recall looking up into the seats to SEE if the rest of the teams were standing up and congratulating us; what I do recall is HEARING their cheers and very much appreciating those. I would not have personally been offended if every single person in the audience had stayed seated. If the arena remained quiet after the winning announcement was made, however, I certainly would have felt embarrassed and disappointed. Catch my drift?

While I completely understand why many people do it, I sometimes find myself rolling my eyes a bit watching teams stand up and sit down in unison each and every time an award is announced. Some might say the more you engage in an activity designed to celebrate and honor the best of the best, the more you diminish its significance. I personally possess just as much respect and admiration for an award-winning team whether I am standing up or sitting on my keister. I also tend to reserve my standing O's for the ultimate winners at an event (Chairman's, Champion, Engineering Inspiration). However, others have a right to think differently, and their methods should be respected, not ridiculed. I just wanted to present this alternate viewpoint as food for thought. For those who do like to stand up frequently, perhaps you can give a bit more thought to the concerns of the people behind you. As rational people living in a GP culture, I'm sure there's a good compromise we can all find together.

LOL why is this even a major point of debate? We must be bored. It's Spring! Let's all take a break, go outside, and do something non-robotic for one day.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by T. Hoffman

It's Spring! Let's all take a break, go outside, and do something non-robotic for one day.

Heresy! How could you say such a thing? You want to put me into shock or something?

[Kyle Love]

To me, cheering your head off, losing your voice, is one of the best things to go to a FIRST competition for. It's great to show your spirit for your drive team who is driving the machine YOU worked your butt off on for 6 weeks. You worked so hard why not root for it?

Here's my opinion about cheering during awards. I think it is GREAT to hear teams cheering for other teams that won awards, even if they don't agree with who won. A lot of teams are "friends", so if my friend would win an award in a sport I would be there cheering for them, what's different with FIRST?

Let's all CHEER ON!

[b-rant]

Originally Posted by Kyle45

To me, cheering your head off, losing your voice, is one of the best things to go to a FIRST competition for. It's great to show your spirit for your drive team who is driving the machine YOU worked your butt off on for 6 weeks. You worked so hard why not root for it?

Here's my opinion about cheering during awards. I think it is GREAT to hear teams cheering for other teams that won awards, even if they don't agree with who won. A lot of teams are "friends", so if my friend would win an award in a sport I would be there cheering for them, what's different with FIRST?

Let's all CHEER ON!

you got it!!! This was my first year at FIRST, and I never really cheered for anything else with as much passion!!! someof you may have noticed that i was cheering even during lunch time ,but that was just because someone had just brought me my food and i was starving. One thing I did happen to notice was that some teams got super mad and frustrated when our team stood up. Or there was one team where a guy yelled at us saying that he would have to make sure to bring ear plugs the next day,because we were too loud. That didn't make me mad though,but it made me want to get our team to join in with his and cheer for their bot. Then he would see how much more exciting watching matches can be, and truely is(FIRST FEVER!!).
When we made it to Houston this year I got chill bumps walking into a massive stadium, and when i saw our robot stacking tetras it was intense. This might just be the FIRST fever I have ,but it seems contagious on team #364!!!!!!!

WHO?

RA!!!!!

By the way I would like you say a thank you to team 45 for the "best alliance parter award". Like Mr.Fava said, "That award is one of greatest awards you can get at Nationals. Sure chairmans winners get in the hall of fame, but we received something much, much greater, the respect and friendship of one of the best and oldest teams at FIRST."

(by the way that quote is not perfectly exact but it basically sums up what he told us yesterday afternoon)

[Jverdon]

Originally Posted by b-rant

By the way I would like you say a thank you to team 45 for the "best alliance parter award". Like Mr.Fava said, "That award is one of greatest awards you can get at Nationals. Sure chairmans winners get in the hall of fame, but we received something much, much greater, the respect and friendship of one of the best and oldest teams at FIRST."

Yes Thank you Team 45 (TechnoKats) we did not win any awards or even gotten to the semifinals in newton. When we were down, your award made us feel awesome about our robot and our Team. We may no thave been picked or won any awards but thanks to you we came home with something awesome.

[The Lucas]

During the awards ceremony, giving a standing ovation for the team receiving the award is a courteous thing to do. You are showing your respect for the team receiving the award. Even if you don't personally know that team (among 341 different teams), the judges choose to recognize them for their efforts and they should be worthy of your respect. We all know how much effort is required just to compete in FIRST and that alone is worthy of a standing ovation in my book.

Having said that, it is not disrespectful to stay in your seat and remain silent during the award presentation. That is your personal choice. Not everyone on my team chooses to stand and cheer, but I'd say over 90% does. If you are going to choose to sit down I don't understand why you are complaining that you can't see. What is there to see? Two people from the team walk down to the stage and get handed a plastic trophy. There is nothing visually spectacular about that (except for the Chairman’s fireworks). What is spectacular about that is the feeling that team gets while accepting an award in front of a stadium full of cheering peers. How can you care so much about seeing this visually unimpressive award presentation that you become irritated when your view is obstructed, but not care enough about it to stand up and join in the cheering? You can't have it both ways.

Matches are a different story. It is important that everyone be able to see the field during matches. There are many people (spectators and scouts) that need to see a match, but don't have a rooting interest. Please sit down after the team interdictions. After the match is dead time. The DJ pumps in dance music, because they want you to standup and dance to fill the dead time.

Another thing that I have yet to see anyone address is moving through the stands during matches. Please wait till the current match is over before moving in or out of the stands. I am guilty of this myself. When you are rushing back to the pits (or somewhere else), it is very easy to forget that everyone else is watching the match and you are walking in front of them. If we make a conscious effort we can stop ourselves from doing this. Matches are only 2 min and 15 sec long and can be quite entertaining if you sit down and watch them before leaving.

Originally Posted by EOC

I observed your team at the championship with a certain degree of envy as our team sat in the stands with little enthusiasm. Your team spirit seemed genuine and unrehearsed; everyone was enjoying themselves. You provided a great role model for other teams.

It is genuine. We cheer like crazy whenever do something successful in the workshop. However, the MOE cheer is rehearsed. We teach that to the rookies in thier first week. I've probably done the MOE cheer a thousand or so times in my five years. It is second nature. Also, we ocassionally have Cha Cha slide breaks during the build season.

[dbSparx]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

Thanks so much for this thread Andy. I came across a similar situation, but even one step worse, in Atlanta this year. A Hall of Fame FIRST team (OK, it's 103) was standing and cheering for their own robot and drive team during a match. A FIRST Ambassador asked the team to sit because others couldn't see. A student politely explained that it was just during their match and that it was common for many teams to do this. The ambassador told this polite student that they weren't demonstrating gracious professionalism by standing. Sigh. Thankfully this is an isolated incident.

This is a team that, six years ago, had nearly no visible team spirit at competitions. In 2001 this team began an incredible transformation. By 2002, it became common for the group to cheer vigorously for their own and other teams. Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster. Cheering for others is different perhaps, but we are about culture change, aren't we?

Well said. I guess my 2 cents (worth every penny you paid for them) is: every team works hard. We put every bit of blood, sweat and tears we have into making our team and this program successful. We work for six solid weeks...and I mean work (and that doesn't even include the part outside of the time between kickoff and ship).

The vast majority of FIRST members (students and mentors alike) have played a significant role in getting their teams ready for competition. They have earned the right to get excited and have some fun, and it is that fun and excitement that will be remembered for many many years.

Stand and cheer, for your team and any others. Stand tall, cheer loud. You have earned it. If you go home with a voice, you haven't tried hard enough.

[Mike Ciance]

I think that teams should cheer and, if they want, stand for all or some of the time during their matches.

One thing i personally disagree with, however, is when teams cheer ALL THE TIME. Some teams seem to cheer whether it is during one of their matches, during other matches, inbetween matches, or during random uneventful times. I just think that when you cheer ALL THE TIME it loses it's meaning. It also becomes very annoying to some of the others watching. In my opinion, there is a line where "spirited" crosses over into "obnoxious." Sorry to say that some teams cross that line.

Again, just my opinion. I know many would disagree.

[Daniel Brim]

I don't mind when people cheer all the time. I think it livens up the competition. Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.

However, it still is a pet peeve of mine when people stand during matches. Notice I said during. Honesty, as long as I see the score, I don't care about field reset. Dance it up and have fun, but please be considerate of the people around you.

Using the Grandmother example from my previous post: Grandma sits down when the team in front of her is either sitting or not there. It hurts Grandma to stand. She doesn't want to move because it is uncomfortable. So, while sounding nice, something like Andy's post offering to help her move can be ungracious at a point. Why should a team inconvenience others into moving?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanielBCR

I don't mind when people cheer all the time. I think it livens up the competition. Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.

No worries, the sticks are no more. but we do have our wobblies.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by DanielBCR

Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.

Daniel,

I'm glad to see that you recognize the difference between a noisemaker and MOEstix. Noisemakers are just that, whereas MOEstix are finely handcrafted musical instruments made from only the finest hardwoods imported from the jungles of Borneo.

Since the MOEstix have been banned from competition, we have taken that "spirit" item and have recycled it into our team's "Spirit Award". An actual working pair of clapping MOEstix mounted on a wooden base. We began giving them out at the 2004 NJ Regional, and the first recipient was TJ^2 (Team 88). This year team 226 "Hammerheads" won at Pittsburgh, team 571 "Team Paragon" won at Philadelphia, and teams 75 "Team Robo Raiders" and 1108 "Panther Robotics" won at the Championships.

After the MOEstix were banned, a student was walking through our work area with the polycarbonate side sheet of our robot. As he walked, he was wobbling it to produce a noise. A low wavering sound, quieter than the MOEstix, but distinct nonetheless. Such was the start of the "Wobblies". At the Championship in 2004, we were using them in the stands, and one of the field staff asked, "Where is that water coming from?" (They had not seen or heard the Wobblies at that point.)

And, yes, the Wobblies are finely handcrafted musical instruments made from only the finest . . . .