Selection process for Alliance Partners in the Finals

[Ken Loyd]

We have three teams, A, B, & C.

Team A seeds 1st, Tean B seeds 3rd, and Team C seeds 6th.

Team A selects Team C. Team C declines because they have their own selection.

My question:

If Team B selects Team C, can Team C accept the selection?

Ken Loyd

[asher]

I'm pretty sure thats a big no.

[Joel J]

Originally posted by Ken Loyd
We have three teams, A, B, & C.

Team A seeds 1st, Tean B seeds 3rd, and Team C seeds 6th.

Team A selects Team C. Team C declines because they have their own selection.

My question:

If Team B selects Team C, can Team C accept the selection?

Ken Loyd

No, they can't. By declining a draft, you automatically decline all other drafts. Team C, however, still has the right to draft. This is why it is pointless for a team to decline if they are not in a position to pick.

[Ricky Q.]

No, Rule T8 states "If a team declines, they are no longer able to be chosen as an alliance partener." Teams may reserve the right to choose, but if one of the top 8 teams declines another top 8 team, they cant be picked...they can only pick for themselves.

[purplehaze357]

thats a definite no....

[Joe Johnson]

The following closely related question has never been fully answered to my satisfaction:

Suppose these facts:

A seeds #1
B seeds #3
C seeds #9

A picks C. C declines. A then picks B. B accepts.

Question:
Can C be a drafting team now?

I think that as the rules have been written, the answer is yes. But at various competitions, I have heard the rules explained as something like "blah, blah, blah... ...Therefore, if a team seeded 9 or higher declines the a draft, they are declining to be in the Elimination Tournament"

More opinions on this topic would be welcome...

Joe J.

[Patrick Wang]

This is my interpretation,

By declining a draft you are waiving your right to be drafted by any other team.

That means, if you end up having the right TO draft, then you may still compete by drafting your own alliance.

[Kris Verdeyen]

At the lone Star Regional, there was a possibility that team 118 might have been in either one of the two described situations - the way that it was explained to us:


If a team seeds eighth, is chosen by the top seed and declines, they can still be chosen by any of seeds two through seven and accept.

If a team seeds ninth, is picked by #1 and declines, they are now out of the finals, no matter what.

If, on the other hand, a team seeds ninth, #1 picks #5, and the team is now the eighth alliance captain, they fall under the first described situation, and can decline and accept to their heart's content.


-----


This was the way it was explained to me. I made sure, because it didn't seem to make sense that the order the picks occured in would matter so much, but I verified it, and that was the way it was to be run at LSR. I doubt that it will be this way at nationals, but one never knows.

Everytime I have seen a top seeded team pick another top seeded team, both teams knew about it before hand and there never was a decline. I wouldn't worry about this too much.

[Lee]

Why would any team at any time decide to decline a draft? I'm sure that if our team was seeded #8 and was chosen as a draft partner by #1 seed, we would accept. As a matter of fact, if we were seeded #2 and chosen by seed #1, we would accept. Just think what kind of alliance that would be with a 1-2 punch! Also, if you decide not to play with #1, you will most likely have to play against them.

Here's my answers to Lee's 'why'

Answer 1: Conflicting Strategies.
Not to go to indepth, but here's a quick one:
A Two Goal Grabber Picking A Two Goal Grabber? Not likely
A Ball Gather picking a Ball gatherer? Maybe, but if your bot is so good wouldn't you want it to go twice? and wouldn't you probably want a two goal grabber at that? one that could easily lock down two goals to score the balls in (just like 230's robot). Also Being a seeded ball gatherer being picked by a higher seeded ball gather: if you've ranked this high on your own, don't you think you have a shot at beating them? Possibly. But what was the strategy you had in mind as you walked up to the field to wait your turn? does this change it? most likely.

Answer 2: The Number one Seeded Team does not have the Number One bot

Not in every regional has the number one seeded team been the best bot out there. That goes for some of the other seeded teams too. Though there have been maybe 2 ball bots at the top, the number 3 team could have been a team that just happened to be in high scoring matches and only has an average robot.

I wouldn't hands down let that third seeded team pick our team. I don't think:
Since they were seeded ahead of us, they must be a better team.
I think:
Hmm their strategy conflicts with ours and/or our robot is better and/or we could make a better alliance picking other teams.

So in playing against them I'd feel we could defeat them. Hehe -- if they aren't good enough to play with us, they certaintly aren't good enough to beat us ;-)

[Mark_lyons]

Another scenario, although highly unlikely, is if a higher seed knows that two lower seeds want to form an alliance, and would make a strong one, the higher seed could pick one of these teams, blocking the formation of a powerful alliance. However, this is risky because the team being selected knowing the rules may end up agreeing to the pick and teaming up with the higher seed.

[Kyle Hill]

Why would any team at any time decide to decline a draft? I'm sure that if our team was seeded #8 and was chosen as a draft partner by #1 seed, we would accept. As a matter of fact, if we were seeded #2 and chosen by seed #1, we would accept. Just think what kind of alliance that would be with a 1-2 punch! Also, if you decide not to play with #1, you will most likely have to play against them.

Lee: We were the fourth seed at SBPLI. We were picked by the number one seed. We both got knocked out in the quarterfinals. We learned that it's not just your performance in the Q-Rounds that determines whether or not you'll be successful, but how well you compliment each other as teammates. In that case, we probably didn't as well as we could have.

Another scenario, although highly unlikely, is if a higher seed knows that two lower seeds want to form an alliance, and would make a strong one, the higher seed could pick one of these teams, blocking the formation of a powerful alliance. However, this is risky because the team being selected knowing the rules may end up agreeing to the pick and teaming up with the higher seed.

Mark: Well, yeah, but that only works when both of the lower-ranked teams are in the top eight. If you pick one of the two teams who isnt in the top eight, of course they're going to accept, otherwise they can't play... and if you pick one who is in the top eight while the other isnt, that doesnt stop them from picking their intended partner themselves anyway.

It's probably wisest to pick who you think fits you the best, and not worry about seeding or what your opponent will do or snuff like that.

[Mark_lyons]

Kyle,

I was referring to two teams that seeded in the top eight. As I said it is a highly unlikely scenario.

Originally posted by Kyle Hill


Lee: We were the fourth seed at SBPLI. We were picked by the number one seed. We both got knocked out in the quarterfinals. We learned that it's not just your performance in the Q-Rounds that determines whether or not you'll be successful, but how well you compliment each other as teammates. In that case, we probably didn't as well as we could have.

Hehe, I was thinking about you guys when i posted earlier while i was at school. I couldn't remember the team numbers and what not. One thing to point out about the SBLI regional was that before everyone went out to pick teams was that after talking with the #1 seeded team they decided to pick 311 over our team. And #2 seeded team (their name eluding me at the moment) told us we were definetely getting picked if Port Jeff didn't pick us. After Port Jeff (#1 seeded) said they were picking 311, the #2 seeded team came back and confirmed we were definetely their first pick.

Note: This all happened Prior to walking out on the field to announce the alliances.

It's probably wisest to pick who you think fits you the best, and not worry about seeding or what your opponent will do or snuff like that.

So Very True! (props)