Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)

[Dave Campbell]

An additional thought...
I am packing up my bike for an Olympic Distance Triathlon I am doing in two weeks and thought of another reason to support participant medals -
I am an avid runner, cyclist and swimmer. I will never reach the Olympics, I will never win a major race. I just want to be competitive in my age group. Every race in which I compete I receive a finishers medal, or pin. It is very different than the winner's medals (and super-sized checks.) But I am nonetheless proud of my accomplishment of completing a Marathon, Half-marathon, Century Ride or Triathlon. Run a marathon, or two and walk away empty handed from them and you'll get what I'm saying. The medals I have earned are significant to me and I display them right next to my participant medals and awards my FIRST teams have earned. I will never understate the value of recognition of completion and always celebrate the success of others. It is an enlightening time to watch and learn from those who win and get recognized for their success.

If winning another website award for your great work online is not gratifying, don't submit your URL for the award. I'm sure that there are other teams that work hard and would love the award in their hands. My team won a regional website award in 2003 and we were extremely proud of our accomplishment.

[jonathan lall]

Originally Posted by Dave Campbell

The medals I have earned are significant to me and I display them right next to my participant medals and awards my FIRST teams have earned. I will never understate the value of recognition of completion and always celebrate the success of others. It is an enlightening time to watch and learn from those who win and get recognized for their success.

That's your prerogative. All I'm saying is that "it's not mine, here's why." You should be enormously proud of your run/ride in a marathon, I know I would be. But I just don't believe a medal is the right way to remember what you did. Not for a marathon, and not for FIRST. Whereas I might associate the image of a medal with being "exemplary in one's field," someone else might not. I can't change perceptions, but I know if I were to participate in a marathon every year, I'd want some kind of iconic certificate that not only demonstrates I was a part of it, but also notes my time. That way, I can beat it next year. This not only signifies participation, but rewards trying one's best. This concept is similar in principle to the 4 year pin, but is even better for the application of a marathon. If you don't agree with the irony of the term "participation medal," that's fine, but you must admit awarding medals to the few people that walk instead of run (when they are capable of running) is detrimental if anything. FIRST does this, by the way.

Originally Posted by Dave Campbell

If winning another website award for your great work online is not gratifying, don't submit your URL for the award. I'm sure that there are other teams that work hard and would love the award in their hands. My team won a regional website award in 2003 and we were extremely proud of our accomplishment.

I can be objective about this; I'm actually not sure I believe the Website Award should be included in the regional awards ceremonies, where the students all come down and get trophies for an individual or small-group effort. Indeed, this particular award is not held in a high regard by many. I am most definitely of the opinion the Website Award needs some reform. Does FIRST even need a Website Award? I'm willing to entertain the possibility it doesn't. I was a webmaster before the award even existed and that didn't stop me from taking our site, redesigning it, making it more resourceful, and making it helpful to FIRST teams. Did I put a little extra effort in because there was an award? You bet. But then again, if FIRST introduced the Wal-Mart Best Dancer award next year, teams would stat dancing. I, on the other hand, don't dance.

One more thing:

Originally Posted by jonathan lall

I’m proud that my efforts contributed to [...] the Website Award (you can refer to my Who Am I picture if you think I’m exaggerating about my thoughts on that).

[Beth Sweet]

Mr. Lall, I'd like to start out this post by saying that I have a lot of respect for you for not only expressing your opinion, but also for doing so in such an elequent way.

That being said, I disagree with most everything you are saying. You say that you (and I believe the other supporter of the concept was Karthik...) beleive that better than a participation medal would be a 4 year pin. I vehemently disagree with this concept. In fact, I still would not qualify for my 4 year pin as I've been in FIRST for only 3 years. Howerever, I feel that participating in FIRST has been fantastic on me. I know that this season, I distributed the participation medals and my 1-year seniors were so proud that one of them didn't take off his the entire evening. Those medals, while they may not seem like the correct form of reward, mean everything to some people. We worked so hard this year. Those kids were so proud of their achievements.

The way I see it, FIRST participation makes everyone winners, so there's no problem with giving a winner a medal.

I don't know, I just don't like the idea of saying that longevity is a better indicator of FIRST than the effort put forth. Maybe a yearly pin would work well, but I hate the 4 year idea. In 3 years, I feel like I've had more good things happen to me and been more impacted by FIRST than some who were in the program for 4 years that I know.

[IMDWalrus]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

Those medals, while they may not seem like the correct form of reward, mean everything to some people.

Time for a simple question.

If the medals aren't the correct form of reward, than what is? The pins are an alternative, to be sure, but what other choices are out there that would be realistic options?

I know that that wasn't the point of your post; instead, let's consider that a question for everyone who doesn't like the medals as they are now.

[Philip W.]

These participation medals don't satisfy me either. What are they congratulating me for? For putting countless and sleepless nights into building a robot, and spending strenuous days on the greatest competition I've experienced when the other guy gets the same medal for coming into the shop every other week for an hour and goes around in the pits looking for give-aways? Everyone gets the medal no matter what they've done, whether they're the ideal and devoted FIRST participant or the guy you never knew was on the team and because of this, the participation medal has no value as an award. I suppose I can keep it to represent what I've done during the past year in robotics, but to me, the robot itself does that. I could also use it to bring back memories when I take it out of an old dusty box twenty years later, but why keep it when it's only worth 5 letters and a few words when I can keep pictures worth a thousand?

An award, may it be a medal, pin, ribbon, certificate, or even if it was words out of someone's mouth, that congratulates me in some specific way, I would value it plenty more than a participation medal. Karthik's four year pin idea is great that way, it's a specific award that commends a feat. Even the driver's pin (although I am not a driver...yet) would be worth more to me than that participation medal. An award for my work in the pits, or time spent during the build season, or during the off-season, or anything similar would be ideal. Of course, how is FIRST going to know I've done all this?

Even words are better. Having someone congratulate me on work well done is, as I said, worth more to me than a participation medal. Meeting Dave Lavery and hearing him commend me for a robot function that I've helped design and create was worth a lot more than any participation medal. Even my self-gratification is better I'd say.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

That being said, I disagree with most everything you are saying. You say that you (and I believe the other supporter of the concept was Karthik...) beleive that better than a participation medal would be a 4 year pin.

Actually, Karthik stole my idea

I figured pins would be cheaper to produce, and would work in the same way that volunteer pins do now. They recognize you for your involvement, but in no way make it look like it's some kind of award.

It wouldn't have to be a 4 year pin. They could have 1,2,3,4 year pins. They could have 2 and 4 year pins.

[jonathan lall]

If I'm not mistaken, FIRST volunteers get these types of pins. That's probably where the idea originates... I know I've had this discussion before.

[jkoci]

we should give awards to all teams that have earned them, and teams whose efforts can be seen. having a lot of awards helps this happen.

[John Gutmann]

i somewhat i agree, but then again what pushes us more than competittion, if no one cared who won or lost teams wouldn't try as hard, though it is indeed about the 2 golden words of first, gracious professionalism, there is still a desire among teams to push their hardest for bragging rights, and yea it is good to be a gracious professional but that isn't how it is in the real world, yea they are trying trying to improve our out look on how we treat others but basically what being a gracious professinal is, is to be good at losing

if we weren't good at losing there would be alot more insults and lack of attenion towards the winner, we would dispised them rather then going to them for help

and yes even though we don't all win awards we are all still winners, i mean come on not everyhigh school in america has robotics teams, so your getting the chance to work with real engineers and build a ROBOT!!!!

[John Gutmann]

after all you know what "they" say:

"Keep your friends close, and your enimies closer"

[Ben Lauer]

First, I would like to thank all the people for their opinions on this topic, I can tell that it is important to all of you because your opinions are carefully presented.

I have been told this about almost every organization that I have ever been in, but its true, you get out of FIRST what you put into FIRST. FIRST can be whatever you want to make of it. Everyone one wants to be awarded for his or her efforts, and everyone deserves it. In my opinion, I consider my award what I take away from this program, the friends, the knowledge, and the experience.

I was on a team for two years, one of those was the teams rookie year. And the most surprising thing to me was what got me the most motivated to try and make a difference in FIRST. It wasn't the awards and it wasn't the recognition I get from the FIRST community, it was the feeling I got when I told my story to non-FIRST related people. They, although not familiar with the organization, were astounded. Most people wanted to learn more, or wanted to see our robot. This was amazing to me, that a group of 12 high school students, a few teachers, and a group of engineers could affect any random person in such a way.

I realize that was a little off topic, but I guess my real opinion would be that it doesn't matter to me. If your team needs to win awards so that you can gather interest and have a stronger team in the future, than I am for as many awards as possible. If your team has awards, and you don’t even remember why they are all important, than I say fewer awards. My point is, we will have disagreements, and whether 50% of the teams win awards, or only 1%, the award is important, because it recognized what you put in to the FIRST community. Every person commenting on this forum has given to the FIRST community, time, effort, resources, you name it, and it has been contributed.

Basically, awards are important, and the people who receive them deserved them, in fact, you could probably give almost any award, to almost any team, because we all deserve recognition.

~Ben Lauer

[Ryan Dognaux]

Just a few things here -

For some people, it's easier to put time into their team if they have an attainable goal in mind. Winning an award is not a bad thing, but doing things just to win the award is. Getting a medal in recognition of the hard work and effort you've put into your team, even if it only is a participation medal, is not a bad thing. I have my medals from my four years in FIRST hanging on my wall. I love mementos like these. I didn't do sports in high school, the only other thing I could really get a 'medal' in was orchestra contest. I'm extremely proud of the medals I have; they represent everything myself and all of my other team members have done.

I say keep the medals. Keep the large number of awards. People deserve to be recognized. When a team wins its first award, it is an amazing feeling. I would think you would want more teams to feel this than less teams every season.

[Ryan Foley]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I actually wish FIRST would bring back some of the old awards they cancelled.
They're fun. This is still about fun. Remember that.
Methinks we take ourselves a little too seriously.

I agree. The "play of the day" and similar awards were the only ones to recognize good strategy, none of the current awards do that. Honestly, there are a lot of awards, but I have to agree with Andy, it's better to have more awards for many teams. If you only had a few awards for a few teams, all the other teams would have a hard time making a name for themselves. Plus, having an award under your belt helps teams get more support, which is vital. Kevin also makes a good point, more awards = more happy people per regional.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

I agree. The "play of the day" and similar awards were the only ones to recognize good strategy, none of the current awards do that. Honestly, there are a lot of awards, but I have to agree with Andy, it's better to have more awards for many teams. If you only had a few awards for a few teams, all the other teams would have a hard time making a name for themselves. Plus, having an award under your belt helps teams get more support, which is vital. Kevin also makes a good point, more awards = more happy people per regional.

Actually that isnt totally true. The Xerox Creativity Award is given to a team that does something, ANYTHING creatively, and in the award speeches it even mentions strategies. Also, 1033 won a judges award in VCU for strategic innovation. Also, a pure strategy award would be arbitrary and would be totally impossible to come up with a true winner. Every robot is different and they all need specific strategies tailored to them, their alliance partners, and their opponents. There is no "standard" of which you could compare each strategy to. The only things you could possibly compare them to is the strategic opinions and papers that teams like 1033, 116, and 229 produce for themselves and others. And like I said, that is nothing more than their view.

Originally Posted by shyra1353

I think that there should be a limit for the amount of awards a team can win per regional. Yes, I understand that some teams deserve 5 or more of those awards at one competition...

And typically, teams dont win more than 3 awards per regional. And they are usually from totally seperate categories. It is very rare to see a team win two technical awards, or sportsmanship, spirit, and/or imagery, or chairmans and EI. They will typically only take one of each "category" or awards, or broad area of different types of awards. And usually they wont take one from all of them. You might see a team win AVA (animation), Xerox (technical), and a Woody Flowers Award, but you probably wouldnt see a team win Industrial Design, Innovation in Controal, and Driving Tomorrow's Technology. It wouldnt be fair only to recognize a teams most impressive feats if they have the best in each section of the competition. If the team is that good at website, technical robots, on the field competition, sportsmanship, and inspiration, so be it.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

I agree with Ed.

Arguing about the number of awards?! I mean c'mon people, don't we have something better to fill our time with?

There are valid points on both side. You can agree with Mr. Lall, and believe we are all just pawns in FIRST's quest for global domination. Or rather, you can defend FIRST until your final breath is gone.

So I guess my outlook on this situation would be one of total disregard. All I know is I have fun building a robot, and I have fun competing with it. If I get an award, I'm happy. If I don't, then too bad. Either way, I'm coming back next year.