Bad Call at Angels Sox game

[sanddrag]

Did anyone watch the Angels Sox game tonight? In the bottom of the 9th sox are up to bat there are 2 outs and 2 strikes a pitch was thrown. The batter swung and missed, and the ball continued on its way into the Angels' catcher's glove right above the ground but clearly in the glove and not on the ground. The umpire made the motion with his arm clearly calling it a strike. The catcher stands up with what he thinks is the end of the inning and rolls the ball to the mound. The batter turns away from first base as if to walk back to the dugout. All the Angels in the outfield start coming in. Then, the batter does a 180 and spins around and starts furiously running toward first base and arrives there where he is declared safe by the same umpire that called him out at home plate after he swung and missed. Everyone is going "WTF?" and the Angles manager comes running out in a fury to "talk" with the umpires. They say the ball hit the ground (which in my mind it clearly did not), the catcher never tagged him, and he is now safe at first. The third base umpire (who would have had the best view of the situation) apparantly wasn't watching.

It would have been bad enough if the umpire didn't initially call him out with a strike, but to call it (correctly) and then go back on the call because the batter thought he'd be smart and try to get on base? C'mon.

It ended up costing the Angles the game.

Anyway, did you see it and what do you think?

[Conor Ryan]

...That's Life, thats all you can say about it. I was shocked when my dad told me the story, but give the ump some credit, he just finishished a 100+ game season and was asked to do even more for the off season. It's one of those human errors...

I wonder if this could possibly lead to instant replay in baseball, or even just instant replay for post season games.

[114gopher]

Initially I was as surprised as everyone else. However, I'm a little league umpire, and the umpire did the right thing. If I can remember correctly, it is a strike, and it goes in the score book as a strikeout, but also as an error on the catcher. The umpire calls the strike, and then calls the batter out when he is tagged by the catcher. However, I thought that the ball did hit the ground, but only after about 5 replays. The only justification I have for this, however, is that the ball somehow ended up in the heel of the glove (the part farthest from the ground), and the only way I can see that happening is the ball bouncing. However, it was a very tough call and I could be persuaded either way. Huge bummer for the Angels though.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

I wonder if this could possibly lead to instant replay in baseball, or even just instant replay for post season games.

The day baseball gets instant replay is the day I stop watching baseball.

I unfortunately missed the game, due to a meeting that went wayyyy too long.

[Denman]

over here in "Soccer" (football ) a few years back, leeds had just been attacking the opposition and missed. All the leeds players pulled back except one who had gone sliding off the pitch earlier
The keeper put the ball on the ground just before he went to kick it up and the leeds player who had slid off the pitch behind him came running back, took the ball off the ground and scored a goal
The referee allowed it as it was a perfectly legal goal, but it caused huge uproar
i'm sure if you look around on the web you could find it but i can't remember who it was against which makes it stupidly hard to find

[Corey Balint]

The call was fine to me.

Josh Paul was at fault for not being in the rhythm of the game. He shouldve been used to Eddings calls by that point. He knew his strike call was a pump of the fist, he shouldve known to tag A.J.
However, we dont know all the actual events. We dont know if Eddings said anything, or what Sciosia or the Umps discussed on the field.
The call shouldve been the Third Base Umpires call. Sciosia shouldve went directly to him.
However, A.J. should have never started to walk to his dugout, i know from Little League ball, that once the player turns to his dugout, its an out. Yet again though, its different in the Bigs, and there are many more situations involved.

[sanddrag]

If the ball did hit the ground, even with the great cameras they have, it is just in between frames. The camera shows the ball maybe 6-8" ahead of the glove, and then shows it in the glove in the next frame. I guess we'll never really know what happened in between.

[KenWittlief]

What the cameras didnt catch is the batter quietly saying to the ump:

"These are not the droids your looking for

the ball hit the ground

you can move along to 1st base"

:^)

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

If the ball did hit the ground, even with the great cameras they have, it is just in between frames. The camera shows the ball maybe 6-8" ahead of the glove, and then shows it in the glove in the next frame. I guess we'll never really know what happened in between.

Yeah, i have to agree with that one shot. But in some other shots, which granted arent that great themselves, do show a change in direction by the ball before it entered the glove. Cold Pizza this morning had a whole segment on this event, and showed a few side angles that looked as if it did hit the ground. However they did show that one frame over and over again, where you saw glove below the ball. Yet i dont think it was in the glove yet. I also think that the next frame after that, it did change direction, but yet again, was it in the glove yet?

[Cory]

I saw the play on Baseball Tonight, this morning (rather ironic, eh?). After seeing it repetedly, it looked like the catcher had the ball.

At any rate, the ump had already called him out. He should have stuck by his decision, since he was the only one to see it. He shouldn't have changed it just because Pierzynski decided to get cute.

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by Cory

I saw the play on Baseball Tonight, this morning (rather ironic, eh?). After seeing it repetedly, it looked like the catcher had the ball.

At any rate, the ump had already called him out. He should have stuck by his decision, since he was the only one to see it. He shouldn't have changed it just because Pierzynski decided to get cute.

Like they have been saying though. The ump has that Out Call as his Strike call. So we really dont know what happened. The only way we would really know, is if the ump was mic'd and we heard him say "Out".

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Corey Balint

Like they have been saying though. The ump has that Out Call as his Strike call. So we really dont know what happened. The only way we would really know, is if the ump was mic'd and we heard him say "Out".

They showed a bunch of clips from earlier outs, and that was the same signal he made each time.

I didn't notice... does he do his strike call to the side, or is it the same fist pump as he does for outs?

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by Cory

They showed a bunch of clips from earlier outs, and that was the same signal he made each time.

I didn't notice... does he do his strike call to the side, or is it the same fist pump as he does for outs?

Same fist pump.

Thats the major problem right now. Cuz his side signal means a clean swing with no ball contact. The 2nd signal was just his strike signal.

[Jack Jones]

Bill Klem, who became one of the game's most famous umpires because of his wit, once said; "It ain't nothin' till I call it."

The pitch was strike three because the ump called it strike three. The batter wasn't out because the ump didn't call him out. The catcher should have had his head in the game enough to know the difference - the batter sure did.

[EricH]

I'm going to use an analogy here: In soccer, there is a rule. The rule is, "If the ref didn't see it, it didn't happen." Application (if baseball has a similar rule): If the ump did not see the ball touch the ground, then it did not touch the ground, and the batter is out. If he saw the ball touch the ground, then it touched the ground, and the batter is out on a swinging strike anyway (unless the catcher dropped it, and the ump saw that.)

Meanwhile, it's water over the dam, spilled milk, etc. Let's drop the subject and get on with life. I am seeing people warming up their lawyerism, which is not a good thing when we are coming up on build season.