ok more car stuff

[greencactus3]

well i took my truck to the local SPEEDY today to get a quick oil change and they find lots more wrong. from the quote they gave me.

Lower ball joints R&L - $41(each) - labor $78 (each)
upper ball joints R&L - $42 (each) - labor $65 (each)
idler arm - $52 - labor $19.
left tie rod - $117 - labor $19

are these the right prices for them? a tie rod costs $117?

with just those suspension repairs the quote was $662.

then they tell me all my shocks should be replaced. yes i know they are quite bad. i completely agree on replacing them. but they say they'll charge me $84 each for the fronts with $23 labor, $88 each for the rears with $23 labor. which they totaled to $661.79

i asked them what brand and they told me monroe. it seems to be a lot more than the belltech ones ive been looking at on summit racing.... should i keep these stock shocks till i buy the belltech ones on my own? (SPEEDY will not install parts i bring in for them)

and then comes the fun part. brakes.
they tell me my front brake pads need to be replaced. and rotor machined.. well thats fine.
$74 for pads, $65 to install them, (is $74 for pads right? thats so much!)
$21 for the hardware,
$18 for machining the rotors,

and then the rears. the shoes are falling off. soooo they will fix it for
$75 shoes, $65 labor,
$21 hardware,
$35 cylinder assembly, $23 labor
$82 each for drums
which totals to $563

then they will flush the brake fluid which is OLD. for $50 fluid, $40 labor.


am i getting overcharged anywhere? this is a 98 s10 with 187k miles on it. i just bought it beginning of summer.... so yea.. well. what should i do? should i get it done somewhere else? is there some way to argue that the labor fees are insane? or is that how they should be around?

whats your opinion on what to do?

[Greg Needel]

i can't tell you off the top of my head if those prices are right but if you want to know for sure. check napa or advance auto parts on the web and get some prices for those parts. that will at least give you a ball park, the best thing to do if you have the time is to do the work yourself, although some of those jobs are a bit tricky for you to do at home.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

i can't tell you off the top of my head if those prices are right but if you want to know for sure. check napa or advance auto parts on the web and get some prices for those parts. that will at least give you a ball park, the best thing to do if you have the time is to do the work yourself, although some of those jobs are a bit tricky for you to do at home.

i checked some parts and they were WAY overpriced. like double in some cases... does that mean i should take my truck elsewhere? i would love to do it all myself but i have few tools past the standard drivers and pliers and such. the bare minimum i should say.. SPEEDY wont install any parts i bring myself. does anywhere do that? like if i bring tierods myself will belletire install them for me? anyone know?

[Matt Attallah]

No, generally places WILL NOT place parts you bring due to any type of failure that can happen. Just better to cover yourself than leave yourself hanging.

Like say that a part broke - but you say that it was the labor that made it wrong - what are we going to do? Again, just a safety/simplistic way to avoid all that.

2. Those prices from a shop should about right [but some are very high - 50 bucks for brake fluid that costs 5 bucks for a can that'll do 2-3 cars?!). Remember - these places also have insurance/shop/mortgages/taxes/stock/etc... to keep up. Yes, YOU ARE GOING TO PAY MORE. I'm sorry to say that - but it's the truth. Gotta keep that $$ in sight after everything is covered.

3. Shoot me over a time and I can help ya out. I get parts much cheaper and won't charge ya a thing [labor wise]. I personally like to wrench and get to know new people. Maybe even bring my camera along!

[Jay H 237]

With 187k it's very likely these parts are all worn.

With that out of the way I will say you're getting way overcharged on the tie rod and brakes. I will also tell you that part of being in business is marking up parts so what you pay over the counter a NAPA (one of my favorite places by the way) and what a shop will charge you for the part will be different.

I would leave the shocks alone until you order the ones you want. I would not waste the money on "temporary" shocks.

The brakes would be the first thing I would fix though, whether you do it yourself or have someone else do it. Brakes were one of the last things I ever decided to do myself for fear of screwing them up. It wasn't until I had several other people do them on my cars while I watched before I realized how simple they were and no expensive tools were needed. If you're not comfortable doing them or scared to then by all means have someone else do them. The rotors should be machined or replaced when you do the brakes. You could just do what they call a "pad slap" which is just replace the pads but thier life will be shortened and if you currently have a pulsing feeling in the brake pedal when you stop from warped rotors you'll still have that feeling. Rotors can only be machined to a certain point, beyond that they become too thin and must be replaced.

The ball joints are something I wouldn't even do myself though. It's not the actual replacement of the ball joints that's the problem, it's the compression, removal, and reinstallation of the coil springs. Messing with those springs should never be treated lightly. If one got free under tension it's a good way to get maimed or killed because of all the built up energy in them. I work on cars basically for a hobby, for fun, not torturing or killing myself. You can check the ball joints by jacking up the front of the vehicle so the tires are hanging and then pushing and pulling in and out of the fender well on the wheel. If they're bad they will move back and forth and you may hear a clunking noise. With this amount of mileage the wheel bearings might be worn also.

The tie rods and idler arm are something you could do yourself though. Just take it for an alignment right after. In addition to a good ratchet set you'd need a pickel fork to separate the tierod and also a torque wrench for reassembly. If you wind up doing alot of work on your vehicles then a torque wrench is a must. A good service manual is also a must. Look for a Chilton or factory service manual. Haynes manuals are OK but they don't go into depth like the others.

Bottom line is I'll get at least another opinion from a different place. You could save money by doing some of the work yourself if you're willing to and willing to get more tools if need be. If you can't afford it all at once then the order of repairs would be the brakes, front steering, and then finally the shocks. Any vehicle that has 187,000 miles on it you'll have to expect it to need repairs and at that mileage some of the costly ones will creep up also. None of the parts you mentioned are designed to last forever.

[greencactus3]

yup. thanks guys.
the ball joints seem to be faulty on the s10s. ive heard a lot about them. too small or sumthing. and matt, if you ever feel you have time on your hands and wanna help me do all this..... or should i say let me watch you do it... lmk! i would sincerely like that. i think if its lasted this long it can take a couple more trips. if its not too far to wherever you wanna work on it, id be more than happy to drive there. as much a gas guzzler the truck is, im sure its MUCH cheaper than labor fees at these shops. sheesh. some guy on s10forums told me that all this work would be about $200 and a weekend to do. wish i could do that. theres just no place to really learn how. well the shop is closed tomorrow so ill be calling them on monday. right now my plan is to call them, ask why some parts are double the price, see if i can get a good excuse ill be satisfied with, problably have them do all the brake work that needs to be done after haggling the price down hopefully. then take it home and see what i can do aobut it elsewhere.

[KenWittlief]

One question - you took the truck in for an oil change and THEY told you it needs $2,000.00+ in repairs?

did you ask them to check the truck over?

For $2000 you can buy all the parts, and the best tools you can get your hands on, and still have money left over.

Someone already pointed out ball joints and tie rod ends are not easy to replace, but the brakes and at least the rear shocks you can do your self.

Tonight you must watch 'The Mask', at least the first 10 minutes, then you will understand what they are doing to you. You ask for an oil change, and they hand you a $2000 estimate?

How much did you pay for this truck? if all those things really need to be replaced, maybe its time to call the Kidney Car foundation and put your $2,000 towards something newer with less miles?

[KenWittlief]

One other thing - learning how to do things yourself is one of the most valuable skills you can develop. Car repair, home repair and maintance, landscaping...

the reason is not obvious: taxes!

let say you want to fix your truck, and it would cost $2,000 for the work.

Ok, you take it to someone. To pay that $2k bill, you have to earn about $2,500 or more, depending on your tax bracket, to get $2k in take home pay.

So you pay the mechanic, now thats income for him, and he has to pay income tax on that money too (the labor part) and business taxes or self employment taxes, so by the time its all said and done, he will have about $1,500 in his pocket (if the cost was all labor, not for parts)

and in the end, your truck has about $1,500 worth the actual work done on it, for which you had to earn $2,500

where'd that other $1,000 go? taxes.

so by doing the work yourself, divide out how much you would have paid someone else by how long it takes you to do the work - and its really like you have earned that money - paying yourself

but when you do work for yourself, you pay no tax - so even if you are not good at fixing your car, even if it takes you twice as long as it would take someone else, you still come out way ahead.

and you learn a lot in the process.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

One question - you took the truck in for an oil change and THEY told you it needs $2,000.00+ in repairs?

did you ask them to check the truck over?

For $2000 you can buy all the parts, and the best tools you can get your hands on, and still have money left over.

Someone already pointed out ball joints and tie rod ends are not easy to replace, but the brakes and at least the rear shocks you can do your self.

Tonight you must watch 'The Mask', at least the first 10 minutes, then you will understand what they are doing to you. You ask for an oil change, and they hand you a $2000 estimate?

How much did you pay for this truck? if all those things really need to be replaced, maybe its time to call the Kidney Car foundation and put your $2,000 towards something newer with less miles?

well yes and no. i took it for an oil change and tire rotation and alignment. except they told me they cant do an alignment today but i left the truck there to do just the oilchange and rotate the tires for now. i had a coupon for the oilchange and it had a +check belts, brkes for wear.. and whatnot. and i got this truck for $2700. has the miles but engine runs amazingly well. no plans on buying a new car. cant buy as well running a truck as this with $2k. well not one id enjoy at least.

[KenWittlief]

If I were in your postion, Id ask around friends and family for a recommended mechanic or repair shop - you really need to find a mechanic you know and can trust.

[Greg Needel]

A good way to find a good mechanic is to drive around on Saturday and see which shops have lines. Typically if people are willing to wait in line on a weekend to get their car done there is a reason.

but ask people first because that is the sure way to find someone good.

[Jay H 237]

Ken brought up some good points. Most of the time when you're having work done the most expensive part of the job is the labor (although there are exceptions). By working on it yourself not only are you learning skills and saving money like Ken said, but when you have to buy tools you still have those tools the next time you have to fix something.

To be honest, if I had to pay someone else to do most of the work on my 3 cars I own (Camry, Caprice, and Mustang) I could not afford to keep them all running. While I have spent a lot of money on tools I didn't purchase them all at once. I mostly bought them as I needed them and this allowed me to slowly take over doing repairs that I used to have others do. There are still some things that I can't do or don't want to for safety reasons, like taking the coil springs out that I mentioned before. There are somethings I hate doing but do anyways to save money like exhaust work. I just bought a muffler today from NAPA for my Caprice. Exhaust is terrible work with all the rust, dirt and other crap that falls down while you're working but fixing the exhaust myself will be cheaper than the Chevy dealer or an independant garage.

Working on cars, houses, boats, whatever isn't for everyone. If you prefer to have others do it for you then that's OK too, but if you start doing some of the stuff yourself you'll have an idea why things cost what they do. One word........labor. Just think of what it would cost to compete in FIRST if you had to pay someone to design, manufacture, and build your robot for you. That $5000 KOP would be nothing compared to the labor costs!

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

A good way to find a good mechanic is to drive around on Saturday and see which shops have lines. Typically if people are willing to wait in line on a weekend to get their car done there is a reason.

but ask people first because that is the sure way to find someone good.

yea. i just found that the quote SPEEDY gave me had item numbers on it
im gonna list it up and see what you think
well at least all the items i found at least


and these are ignoring labor fees. and some i need 2 of.

[greencactus3]

item number description price quoted price I found on rockauto.com
k6145 lower ball joints 41.41 21
k5208 upper balljoint 42.2 20.79
k6187 MOOG idler arm 52.57 25.99
es3379t MOOG left outer tie rod 117 55.99
911129 shocks/front 84.12 37.99
911021 shocks/rear 87.52 39.79
pgd154c friction (pads) 74.19 34.79
h5524 disc brake hdwe. Repair kit 21.95 1.2
514pg brake shoes 74.55 23.79
h7068 rear shoe hardware 21.95 6.81
wc37967 wheel cylinder assembly 34.78 11.46
2585 drum 82 50.79


....well in case the excel doesnt open for you... little harder to see but yea.. most items are priced about double, and some such as h5524 - disc brake hardware repair kit is charged like 18 times as much as on rockauto.com. and these are with item numbers. so it has to be the same thing. i know that everything will be a little over because they need to make a profit there too but twice to 18 times the price? isnt that just a little insane?

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Jay H 237

Working on cars, houses, boats, whatever isn't for everyone. If you prefer to have others do it for you then that's OK too, but if you start doing some of the stuff yourself you'll have an idea why things cost what they do.

i would LOVE to be able to do all this myself. but i have basically zero tools and very little knowledge on how to. and my daily driver breaking down because of a lack of knowledge would be a little different than one of our robots breaking down. i just assumed i dont have a choice but to have someone do it for me.