American "Selectiveness"

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by Wolfe
Hahaha. Don't even get me started on American foreign policy. I'll be going all night.

you better stop NOW before you get banned like the last people did!!!

[Clark Gilbert]

The American Flag is probably the most popular thing in the USA.

I bet you can find one at almost any building (all schools/large companies) and many many houses have them...

The flag is what America is "based" around and overall its not increased much after 9/11 excpet for the usage of flags on cars (anyone else notice that?)


It's just a way of symbolizing America and our "ways"



It's also an object that every from the USA can "gather around together" when something happens (ex. important person passes away or a person from the community or when something tragic happens)

[Kris Verdeyen]

As a member of the team responsible for the passing out of American flags to each team, I feel obliged to respond.

American $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#

First off, the title - please be more courteous - this type of language is not acceptable here.

...constant references to American high schools and American students.

FIRST was created as a response to a problem unique to the culture of the United States. We have one of the most technologically advanced societies on Earth, but we value those people doing the innovating and creating the technology less than, say, Japan or Germany. This is why it is still a priority of FIRST to still develop more teams in the US, as opposed to those in Canada, Europe, or South America.

This year there was an amazing expansion of FIRST in Canada. It went from 3 teams last year to 26 teams and a new regional! Canadian teams went from 0 awards in all other years to 13 awards! .... Why wasn't any of this mentioned? This is some really amazing stuff!

Mentioned where? Lots of teams have great stories to tell. So they tell them here, on the CD forums, or they tell them in a Chairman's award presentation, or they'll tell them to a Judge when he or she comes by to interview them about their efforts in the competition.

...extra long national anthems...

The Liberty Singers (I think that's their name) sing the US's national anthem a lot. The way they sing it is the way they always sing it. They are a patriotic American singing group. It's kind of what they do. And to put it in perspective, the NHL has been an international league for far longer than FIRST, and those things still feature fans who insist on booing at the Canadian National Anthem. FIRST fans at least show respect.

...an obsession with the American flag.

118 is responsible for much of this. We passed out two American flags to each team. We did consider the possibility of printing Canadian and Brazillian flags as well, but in the end, decided against it. Six hundred flags is enough. Does this make us overzealous patriots worthy of scorn? Most people actually kind of liked the flags.

...heavily Americanised.

Shouldn't this be spelled with a 'z'? I guess it's a grey area.

Bottom line, don't take everything so seriously. The people giving the speeches are taking time away from their day jobs, reading speeches written too quickly and with incomplete knowledge about the competiton. They are there because they think FIRST is a good idea, not to slight Canadians.

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally posted by Quain
Ok.. i think the best way to resolve this isn't to bicker... e-mail their team and let them knows whats going one.. eliminate the problem knot... not the whole strand of rope...

He's allowed his opinion. He may be wrong, but he's allowed to express his opinion.

[kane]

Lets play a game of good idea bad idea

Good idea: Letting people know your problems

Bad Idea: Bashing America when over 90% of this board is American.


But lets examine the facts, many of these people are returning speakers, and as many people know change is hard so if you spent the last 2 or 3 years calling it US FIRST chances are that subconciously doing it. Trust me their is no American conspiricy to bash the other countries involved, but lets not forget where most of the teams are and where it was founded and where the nationals were being held. Why did it appeal more to americans? because its In AMERICA!. If it was in Canada im sure it would favor Canada.

The reason most teams didn't notice is because the simply Don't care what they call it, they could call it INTERNATIONAL FIRST and i bet you half the people won't notice. I don't really care what they call it ITS A NAME.

As for the american flag everywhere well its Patriotism, while im not a patriot i do have some respect for the people in my country, and i like the fact they they support our country.

Oh and By the way if we don't know there's other countries outside our borders what happens to those millions and millions of dollars we send out in forgin aid, what about the red cross, what about the american troops, what about the aid workers, Think a little bit man. America isin't filled with a bunch of $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#es were a lot smarter and have a lot smaller egos than you think we do.

Try not to get to worked up over simple matters

Oh and you might want to get a flameretardent suit.

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
I'm not saying Americans don't think of the rest of the world, there are the bombings and invasions and oil grabbing and bullying of countries all over the world.

Oh god your asking for it, I'll let someone else handle this one.

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
Hahaha. Don't even get me started on American foreign policy. I'll be going all night.

Yes it is bad, but it saves lives, helps countries grow, and stops oppressive dictators

wolfe go to the chat now.

YOu got to realize something about america we don't get to make the laws we get to elect the people who make the descisons once their there we have no control over them so BACK OFF

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
Sorry. can't chat. busy with other things.
And i am allowed to express my opinions.

I acknoledge that it is, in many cases the polititians, and i'm not layign blame on the American people. let me state that now. I'm talking about the government don't take it persoanlly I think in many cases if people understood what exactly the American government is doing they'd object. Canada really isn't much better in alot of these things. i'm not trying to get all high-and-mighty here.

We are writting a letter to first about that. And guys one more thing. I am really not angry at all. Niether should you be. If you have a real problem, debate it with me.

Yes you are allowed to express your opnions but don't flame another country, I'll adimt i don't really like my govermnent, i don't agree with a lot of the laws, but it doesn't really give the citizen of another country the right to bash it, Go to chat.

[kane]

Originally posted by XRaVeNX


Well, Wolfe never actually "bashed" the States in his previous posts. If he were to "bash", he would be hating all Americans, pointing out everything bad about Americans.

Also, although this board is 90% Americans, it doesn't make it wrong that we can't express ourselves. I admit that he used some inappropriate language but in general, he was just expressing his thoughts and observations.

As Wolfe said, us Canadians don't hate Americans. We are up here, in the north, and because we are NOT Americans, we have a unique perspective on Americans. There is nothing wrong with patriotism but when you start neglecting other countries' achievements, it makes you ignorant. FIRST is trying to become an international competition. And I think American teams should take note and respect FIRST's efforts at trying to globalization.

If people can't look past their borders, and see that humanity is a whole and not separate parts, we will never succeed.

By any chance are you xxx-Raven-xxx on danimation.com?


Okay i never said he couldn't express his opnions, feel free to. I don't really care what you think of my country, you don't experience it like i do. The people aren't like the sterotype. Yes we do need to look past our borders but thats two ways just because you think you know americans doesn't mean you do. FIRST didin't ignore the canadian regional, were you listenting to any part of the opeing ceremonies? they made a big thing of it there.

[Justin 188]

Originally posted by verdeyw
"This year there was an amazing expansion of FIRST in Canada. It went from 3 teams last year to 26 teams and a new regional! Canadian teams went from 0 awards in all other years to 13 awards! .... Why wasn't any of this mentioned? This is some really amazing stuff!"

Mentioned where? Lots of teams have great stories to tell. So they tell them here, on the CD forums, or they tell them in a Chairman's award presentation, or they'll tell them to a Judge when he or she comes by to interview them about their efforts in the competition.

I think the whole "mentioned where" thing is exactly what Wolfe is getting at. While teams may mention it (heck, my team got the regional Chairman's Award for it), it is slightly disappointing that FIRST does not. They like to talk about significant expansion and growth of FIRST, but selectively. I'm not trying to make people feel bad or hostile (and I'm sure that isn't Wolfe's intention either), but currently, that's the reality of it. Most people simply don't realize it until it actually affects them.

[Justin 188]

Uh... I think a moderator should change the name of the thread... the word tagged onto the end would make it offensive for any country

Maybe change it to "Selectiveness"?

[Joe Matt]

Ok, how did we go from US FIRST to American Government Consperiacy? I think I got lost with my punie american brain .

You see, we live in AMERICA! You visited AMERICA for FIRST. We wave flags in AMERICA. You waves flags in CANADA. They also wave flags in BRITIAN, BRAZIL, and countless other contires. Would you rather go to Palistine, India, or Somolia and see their patriotism? How about draging of innocent citizens. Killing of children. The massacer of the elderly. Do you like that? Disney is a surprisingly Patriotic place with lots of american roots and illiterations. So if you don't like it, do something american, don't go to it. Wow, such a hard concept. Don't give them your company. Spend your money somewhere else.

Go to chat......

[Joe Matt]

OK, what were you trying to point out? That we are diffrent than Canadians? Wow, we didn't know that already...

We grew up diffrently, do stuff diffrently, and we have tons of flags around. Pre and Post 9-11, we had lots. Its not that we duct tape them to your face and blared the american anthem in your ears 24/7. We sang the anthem with a flag, just like canada.

As for our polocies, what has Canada recenly done? We are movers and shakers, we change the world for humanity. We have diffrent views, yes, so leave it at that.

[XRaVeNX]

Originally posted by kane


Yes you are allowed to express your opnions but don't flame another country, I'll adimt i don't really like my govermnent, i don't agree with a lot of the laws, but it doesn't really give the citizen of another country the right to bash it, Go to chat.

Well, Wolfe never actually "bashed" the States in his previous posts. If he were to "bash", he would be hating all Americans, pointing out everything bad about Americans.

Also, although this board is 90% Americans, it doesn't make it wrong that we can't express ourselves. I admit that he used some inappropriate language but in general, he was just expressing his thoughts and observations.

As Wolfe said, us Canadians don't hate Americans. We are up here, in the north, and because we are NOT Americans, we have a unique perspective on Americans. There is nothing wrong with patriotism but when you start neglecting other countries' achievements, it makes you ignorant. FIRST is trying to become an international competition. And I think American teams should take note and respect FIRST's efforts at trying to globalization.

If people can't look past their borders, and see that humanity is a whole and not separate parts, we will never succeed.

[XRaVeNX]

No, I'm not xxx-Raven-xxx.

I never said we "know" Americans. I am just saying that we have a unique perspective. I ask you this: How many people are good at critizing themselves? Probably not many. And especially when a country tries to critize itself. It is difficult to "bash" yourself.

It is much easier to praise your own country. And in doing so, sometimes, many forget that OTHER people might be right.

I know they did mention the regional competitions outside of the US. What I was hoping was that they would recognize the people that started these regionals outside the US. Imagine the amount of work, organization, effort, and time used to do this. I think that the organizers of each of these regionals should be recognize especially since this is the first time this has been done.

For example, I'm impressed that teams from England and Brazil were able to attend and I would have wanted to know who organized them. But instead, they only mentioned it saying "yes, we did have teams outside the US here."