American "Selectiveness"

[AdamT]

They called is US FIRST....that is/was the name of the organization....ever notice how you go to www.usfirst.org ??

So, it's a habit for someone who has been involved with this program longer then you probably have known about it to call it that....oh well....

[Wolfe]

The thing that annoyed me the most at the nationals was the Americans who are unable to think of anything outside the USA. About a quarter of the awards speakers who named the competition called it US FIRST instead of just FIRST. Many of these people spoke as if there were no international teams involved in FIRST, making constant references to American high schools and American students.

And don't tell me they were talking about North and South America as a whole. Nobody says it that way, and besides, there was a team from England so that’s incorrect as well.

What really annoyed me is that talking to Americans after the awrds ceremony, none of them seemed to notice. It's the American paradigm, to half of them, it doesn't pop into their minds that there is a whole world outside their borders.

This year there was an amazing expansion of FIRST in Canada. It went from 3 teams last year to 26 teams and a new regional! Canadian teams went from 0 awards in all other years to 13 awards!! including 3 regional victories and a regional chairman's award, against some VERY good teams. It is also considerably more difficult for Canadian teams to participate in FIRST because of our low dollar. It's also quite difficult for a foreign team to be at any FIRST event because they are so heavily Americanised. The resounding success of Canadian teams is due largely to the efforts of Mark Breadner and Woburn collegiate (#188). Why wasn't any of this mentioned? This is some really amazing stuff!

The reason it wasn't mentioned is that despite the name change and a bunch of superficial changes on the FIRST website, the attitude is that this is still an American competition and that the International teams are just along for the ride. There doesn't seem to be the kind of ownership that American teams have. For example, all those important people who went around visiting the regional. Didn't any of them feel it might be neat to see a new regional in a new country with 2 dozen new teams?

What I’m trying to say is that FIRST doesn’t really seem all that concerned with international teams. There’s the lack of credit, the lack of encouragement. Things like, ordering everything from small parts are much more difficult outside the USA. And worst of all is the idea that it’s still an American competition. As well as the frenzy of patriotism that simply manifests as extra long national anthems, and an obsession with the American flag!

[Wolfe]

Ok, I can understand that the name is a gradual change. But that doesn't adress the problem that what happened at the Canadian Regional was essentially ignored. And as far as Americans being $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#es, I'm not saying anything like that. It's just that it doesn't occur to many people that there are other teams. It's subconciously still an American competition.

I'm not saying Americans don't think of the rest of the world, there are the bombings and invasions and oil grabs and bullying of countries all over the world.

[Wolfe]

Hahaha. Don't even get me started on American foreign policy. I'll be going all night.

[Wolfe]

Sorry. can't chat. busy with other things.
And i am allowed to express my opinions.

I acknoledge that it is, in many cases the polititians, and i'm not layign blame on the American people. let me state that now. I'm talking about the government don't take it persoanlly I think in many cases if people understood what exactly the American government is doing they'd object. Canada really isn't much better in alot of these things. i'm not trying to get all high-and-mighty here.

We are writting a letter to first about that. And guys one more thing. I am really not angry at all. Niether should you be. If you have a real problem, debate it with me.

[Wolfe]

I like Americans too. They are generally nice people with a few exceptions. Like New York. (kidding. Hockey playoff reference. Go leafs go)

Good point Scottie. I guess that remark was out of line. I just found the anthem annoying. Form a musical point of view. I hate when Canadian singers mess with O Canada as well.

And sunny and joseph. I'm not angry. i don't want to get even. I don't hate you, or Americans in general. I'm pointing out what I think is a problem in an attempt to get some dialogue going. If you don't like that. Stop reading and posting.

As far as the flag goes here is my problem with it. When a disaster strikes in America, the media and therefore the majority of people just rally around the flag. I honestly saw more American flags in one day at the competition than I do Canadian ones in a month in Canada! Really not being sarcastic here. The idea is that patriotism is equivalent to flag waving. That’s a very simple minded approach. The other idea is that after 9/11 criticizing the government is akin to supporting terrorists. That more than wrong. That’s dangerous. At an important time the government should be criticized more than ever! Without dialogue, government messages become propaganda.

[Wolfe]

Really we are talking about 3 different things here.
- Canadian support and recognition at FIRST (or lack thereof)
- American patriotism in FIRST and outside
- Hockey

The first topic seems to have died out. It really was what this thread was supposed to be aboot. If you look at the work done by team 188 and the Canadians at the regional it is truly outstanding and worthy of being mentioned. The recognition of international teams was very weak at best.

The second topic is really what people are getting angry about. What I am saying is that the level of patriotism in America is at such a high level that criticism of the government in the media and by people no longer occurs. People should be incredibly skeptical and critical of their government ALWAYS. And there’s a lot to be critical about!

The third topic we haven’t really talked about as much as it deserves. Leafs are going all the way. Islanders suck.

I am not:
Bashing the American PEOPLE
Saying I hate Americans
Saying I hate America
Saying Americans are stupid
Saying Americans are inferior
Saying America is inferior
Saying Americans are all a certain way

[Wolfe]

First of all. I understand that US FIRST name mistake now. Really that makes sense and it’s a forgivable mistake. However calling all the teams Americans is something different. It’s not just a name

The thing is not that American patriotism annoys be extensively. It does a bit, but that’s personal and irrelevant. The point is that patriotism gets in the way of the public doing a good job of criticizing the government. Doesn’t anyone have any thoughts on this that have nothing to do with Canadians? I’m interested to know what people think.

Also about first reconizing Canadian acheivements.

So. You guys think the Leafs will sweep the Sens like last year?

[Scorpion515]

Originally posted by J 188
Uh... I think a moderator should change the name of the thread... the word tagged onto the end would make it offensive for any country

Maybe change it to "Selectiveness"?

I agree. The end is very offensive.

FIRST originated in America, and American it should remain. Plus, I feel that when we say US FIRST, we aren't just saying the US. US FIRST is just our name, but its not completely who we are. Yes, a high percentage of the teams are American, but we still accept everyone.

[Quain]

YEa dood.. you might wanna chill a little... It was started in america.. and will continue to have an american touch to it forever.. It started here.. and it will always have an american touch.. tho.. they didn't play our anthem out too much... and don't critisize.. i like Canada..

[Quain]

You flaming us dosn't fix the problem.. it intensifies it...

[Quain]

Ok.. i think the best way to resolve this isn't to bicker... e-mail their team and let them knows whats going one.. eliminate the problem knot... not the whole strand of rope...

[Sunny Thaper]

You know, this competition isn't just about robotics either, there are other aspects to it such as animation. As everyone knows, animation really has no part of the fame at all. I think instead of venting your anger you should find a way to change "the American's" view of FIRST. I could sit her and whine all day myself how the animation gets downplayed as well as other aspects of FIRST but instead I choose to talk to the organizers of FIRST and discuss ideas that may change that in the future as you should.

[Sunny Thaper]

How about Canada, at their regional, ignore the US. That would really teach us wouldn't it??? I think that by not mentioning a country or forgetting the new name you don't neccessarily "bash" on a country. I myself have always just called it Robotics. By calling it robotics I don't think I have offended Dean or any other person involved with the event. I am not neccassarily saying you should just accept it either. I just want you to remember that just expressing your feelings doesn't get you very far. Trying to do something about the problem does.

[Sunny Thaper]

Hell, I am actually Indian from India. I don't care if you are angry or not I am just pointing out that just talking about it won't help the problem go away. Sorry if it sounded like I was try to throw you back in your place or anything. I actually just don't want you to think that we don't care.