what happens when you give a nonFIRSTER a robot?

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

One thought... non-FIRSTer's dont realize how delicate these big hunks of machinery actually are. They are used to RC cars that can be run into walls, driven over sanddunes, and played with by 2-year-olds. So the concept of a big hunk of metal that you put your SOUL into for 6 weeks, but that isnt shock & vibe proof, hasnt crossed their minds!! Be wary!

Im sorry but if you didn't build your robot to withstand being run into walls, driven over sandunes, and be played with by a two year old you didn't do your job. I have seen robots run into walls, drive over large obstacles, fall over, and watched them be dropped five feet off the ground but yet they still worked.

[dlavery]

There is a very simple answer to this problem: VEX.

Over the summer, Team 116 built a VEX demonstration field (a very simple 8'x8' table covered with neoprene floor pads) and a set of VEX "squarebot" robots. We created a very simple 2-minute game that takes 15 seconds to describe, and then turn over the controls of the VEX robots to anyone that wants to drive. We have had drivers as young as four, and as old as ... well, lets just say they were a lot older than anyone on the team. We have demonstrated it at many public events (the Herndon Festival with over 90,000 visitors, the NBC DigitalEdge Expo with 70,000 visitors, several area school demonstrations, etc.), and well over a thousand different people driving the robots. The relatively low power and mass of the VEX robots (vs. an FRC robot) limits the amount of actual destruction they can do, and we have had absolutely no problems with the public damaging the robots. To the contrary, what we usually have is a reaction like these:

We have the team FRC robot to one side - unpowered - where the team members can explain the program, describe the robot, and not let it hurt anyone that does not understand it.

As an aside, I would also point out that our robotics team captain is a cheerleader.

-dave

[Cuog]

Generally it is good to have a nearly indestructible robot for demonstrations where you let people drive, we have for our demonstratino a person manning the oi power and another person giving the new driver a quick rundown of how to drive,

we have had kids as young as two and three driving one or our FRC robots that was from the year with the boxes(dont remember what year but it was before me)

The only problems with it is that some of the gears have had a tooth or two break off during their long life

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by dlavery

There is a very simple answer to this problem: VEX.

Dave beat me to it. You simply cannot beat Vex for public robot demonstrations. If built correctly, the robots are more or less indestructible. Our team recently had a public FIRST demo at our local mall, and we let little kids walking by drive my Space Elevator Vex bot. The elevator and arm were both protected by limit switches, so there wasn't really anything to break.



On the other hand, although driving a FIRST robot may be impressive, it can also be dangerous to bystanders if the robot gets out of control. Also, without a large space, a tetra scoring robot is kind of boring, no matter how cool your operator interface or robot looks. But with the Vex bots, you can get a mini-game going, where people can drive and compete themselves.

This is the key to good public relations for recruiting members to your team - direct interaction. Then they actually see that robotics isn't a boring just-for-geeks club. (It worked really well for our team, as almost everyone who was at the first meeting is now still involved with the team. )

[EricH]

Darn, both Dave and Art beat me to this--VEX. We did this for a fundraiser--two Squarebots at a time playing soccer with multiple golf balls to score. Made a 4' by 8' table that we could break into two 4'x4' sections for transport, got a golfer's pool set for the balls and goals, and charged 2 bucks a round, with a quantity discount. No problems other than a couple of people trying to use the sideways motion of the sticks to turn when that couldn't do a ting, but the field wall held. We also had bumper switches to foil Battlebots wannabes from practicing.

[Wayne C.]

I agree with a lot of the above-

First-FIRST robots are OSHA nightmares. If you are letting rookies drive you never just hand over the controls and step back. Somebody always has a hand on a switch ready to kill the machine- perhaps even just unplugging the controller.

Even experienced drivers sometimes do unsafe and stupid things (like leaving the program tether still plugged in to the laptop as the robot flies out in an autonomous mode) : )


Second- If a "cheerleader" can break a robot in one easy swoop then it must not be very durable. Since the season is over why not beef up the frame and bumpers so it can take the hits? Maybe you can patch the damage with her name on it.

Of course there is nothing on any robot the team builds that they can't fix. Look at this as an opportunity to warm up for the new season. ; )


The benefit of getting more kids interested in robots far outweighs a few repairs- even if they are big ones.

WC

[Andrew Blair]

A couple things regarding robot damage....1. Not screwing in tethers is a start, but just remember that a serial cable pulled at right angles to it's connector *will* break off. And IFI repairs are pretty pricey.

2. The problem with an FRC robot breaking is not that its not durable, but thats its so big. A good example: go-carts. If you look at a good go-cart, it's pretty well built. However, when I ram my go-cart into a wall, then roll it down a hill, I expect it to be a little worse for wear. Thats why VEX and RC stuff doesn't break; its too light. And most large mechanical devices have pretty high strengths vs. loads. We have weight limits however, and a rolled steel frame is simply not an option. Aluminum is still really, really strong, but it'll have to do.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

Im sorry but if you didn't build your robot to withstand being run into walls, driven over sandunes, and be played with by a two year old you didn't do your job. I have seen robots run into walls, drive over large obstacles, fall over, and watched them be dropped five feet off the ground but yet they still worked.

Driving into walls, over sand dunes, falling 5 feet, and having the robot be young child operable are all factors outside the design constraints.

Obviously people don't intentionally make their robots incredibly delicate, but nobody designs their robot with demos in mind, or doing other similar things that the robot was never built for, hence why it's sometimes so easy for them to break (or otherwise cause damage) during these events.

[EricH]

At one of 330's demos, we allowed team related people to drive (particularly since most of our drive team wasn't there ). The thing was that someone who knew the controls was always next to them operating the other function. Plus the crowd was held back, and there was a ditch to go through to get to them, and there were goals all over, so you couldn't do much damage. My mom drove for a few minutes with me on the arm, then we switched, but I was always within easy grab of the disable switch.

As for robot design, design it to last for at least one more competition than you are going to and make it easy to repair, and you should be fine. If you design it to withstand at least two years of competition, you will be fine and have a practice bot for next year.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by Cory

Driving into walls, over sand dunes, falling 5 feet, and having the robot be young child operable are all factors outside the design constraints.

What???? Are you telling me that not a single team assumed that their robot could fall from the ground during the 2003 competition if they used the pull up bar. Come on.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

What???? Are you telling me that not a single team assumed that their robot could fall from the ground during the 2003 competition if they used the pull up bar. Come on.

They may not have assumed that they could, but at least one team did. (330 fell off once during LA qualifying rounds with no damage other than being flat on the floor for the rest of the match.) Assume that robots will fall over, be hit by other robots, be hit by game objects, and anything else you like. Build to couteract that. (Oh, and it was 2004. Of course, there was the possibility that a robot could turn turtle on the '03 ramp.)

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

What???? Are you telling me that not a single team assumed that their robot could fall from the ground during the 2003 competition if they used the pull up bar. Come on.

If a team used the bar in 2004, then yes, the thought probably occured to them, but if you never were going to hang, or you're using a non 2004 robot, a 5 foot fall was never within the design parameters.

[lukevanoort]

This was an '02 bot so it was a bit old and had the original (i think) drill trannys in it. We irritated us was not so much that she broke the tranny (most teams have including us) and drove over the wall, but that she kept driving it when our team member was on the robot. In retrospect I don't know why he didn't just yank the OI's power, but at the time I had no experience with the robots or the OIs, so I didn't question the action. If I had thought about it at the time, I still wouldn't have done it for fear of the robot continuing like someone mentioned (ever unplug an N64 controller?).

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by EricH

At one of 330's demos, we allowed team related people to drive. ... and there was a ditch to go through ... My mom drove for a few minutes with me on the arm, then we switched, but I was always within easy grab of the disable switch.

Our 2005 robot is VERY easy to drive; I was able to drive it over that little gutter once I figured out the technique. Not like the year our mentors were crashing the robot into folding tables at our sponsor dinner...

In my opinion, our scariest demo this year:

The senior pastor of our church wanted us to demo our Championship robot at all four weekend services. The carpeted platform in our church auditorium is about as high as a tabletop, and at the very front of it is a drop off with no railings, much like a theatrical stage. I suggested that the members of the team who were not driving the robot should sit in the front row so that, if anything went wrong, we would be the ones it landed on. The seating didn't actually work out that way.

But, between our excellent drivers and our steady robot, there were no "incidents." And we do not allow novices to drive in this kind of demo.