2006 Motor Specs

[Schmitty!]

I measured the no-load speed and current of several of the motors we received in the 2006 KOP with an optical tachometer and Fluke DMM. I got the following results:
Small CIM #1 +12.00V: 5370 RPM 2.06Amps
Small CIM #1 -12.00V: 5412 RPM 2.00Amps

Small CIM #2 +12.00V: 5209 RPM 2.00Amps
Small CIM #2 -12.00V: 5374 RPM 2.13Amps

Large CIM #1 +12.00V: 2665 RPM 0.700Amps
Large CIM #1 -12.00V: 2738 RPM 0.790Amps

Large CIM #2 +12.00V: 2752 RPM 0.802Amps
Large CIM #2 -12.00V: 2686 RPM 0.690Amps

Fisher-Price #1 (without gearbox) +12.00V: 16224 RPM 1.06Amps
Fisher-Price #1 (without gearbox) -12.00V: 16579 RPM 1.03Amps

I am planning on grabbing the remaining no-load measurements tonight. So far the measurements I've taken fall in line with what I expected based on the datasheet values. I'm very happy to see that the Fisher-Price motor is a 12V motor!

Does anybody have a dynomometer test stand that can be used to capture the torque data? I can set up a test at stall to capture the stalled torque constant, but from previous experience it is more accurate to capture the torque constant while the motor is spinning under a known load. I don't have access to a dyno at my current job.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

P.S. By the way, I have just found a table in this document that I believe is in error. It has the peak power of the FP motor over 300 Watts. This does not match the specs in the spec sheets or even the specs in the rest of the table in the same document. I believe my numbers are correct. Also, the Bosch and the Globe are listed as non-12V specs you have to scale the power ratings accordingly to get apples to apples comparisons.

Joe,

I just saw this error as well. Frustrating, as I was making a spreadsheet to figure out the windup time for a firing wheel and the FP + a shifting Dewalt was taking longer than I thought a 300W motor should. Looking at the spec sheets and the Tips doc, the erroneous Tips doc is using the Power Input figure of 300+W at Peak Power for the FPs. As opposed to the Power Output of 170W. And now back to the drawing board I go.....

Kevin

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Schmitty!

I measured the no-load speed and current of several of the motors we received in the 2006 KOP with an optical tachometer and Fluke DMM. I got the following results:
Small CIM #1 +12.00V: 5370 RPM 2.06Amps
Small CIM #1 -12.00V: 5412 RPM 2.00Amps

Small CIM #2 +12.00V: 5209 RPM 2.00Amps
Small CIM #2 -12.00V: 5374 RPM 2.13Amps

Large CIM #1 +12.00V: 2665 RPM 0.700Amps
Large CIM #1 -12.00V: 2738 RPM 0.790Amps

Large CIM #2 +12.00V: 2752 RPM 0.802Amps
Large CIM #2 -12.00V: 2686 RPM 0.690Amps

Fisher-Price #1 (without gearbox) +12.00V: 16224 RPM 1.06Amps
Fisher-Price #1 (without gearbox) -12.00V: 16579 RPM 1.03Amps

I am planning on grabbing the remaining no-load measurements tonight. So far the measurements I've taken fall in line with what I expected based on the datasheet values. I'm very happy to see that the Fisher-Price motor is a 12V motor!

Does anybody have a dynomometer test stand that can be used to capture the torque data? I can set up a test at stall to capture the stalled torque constant, but from previous experience it is more accurate to capture the torque constant while the motor is spinning under a known load. I don't have access to a dyno at my current job.

I have a Magtrol HD-715 dynamometer and Sorenson DCS 20-150 switchmode power supply in my day-job lab. I did a quick 12V test of the large CIM motor this morning. With the motor coupled to the dyno and no load (apart from dyno friction) applied the speed was 2710 RPM and the current was 1.5 Ampere. Peak efficiency was about 85% at 43 oz-in, 2470 RPM drawing 7.7 Ampere. Peak shaft power was about 218 Watts at 193 oz-in, 1530 RPM drawing 33.5 Ampere. The maximum steady load that I applied was 283 oz-in, 750 RPM drawing 51 Ampere. I did take the loading up to about 350 oz-in momentarily without stalling the motor, but did not leave it there long enough to record steady data.

[starbot]

What size timing belt pulley is on the larger CIM in the kit?

[Paul Copioli]

I will shortly post my annual Fisher-Price motor thread. I will discuss three motors in particular: small CIM, big CIM, and Fisher-Price. I can tell you this right now: FIRST has done their homework this year.

I have the information regarding the big CIM and it's interfaces, but I have to scan it in. It discusses what size and type of pulley is on the motor shaft (among other things).

-Paul

[Paul Copioli]

Here are the specifics of the pulley on the output pinion of the large CIM motor:

Gates Rubber Co., 16 groove, 3mm pitch Powergrip GT, 15mm wide.

This is from the same Fisher-Price spec sheet that the motor curve FIRST provided came from. I do not know why they did not provide both sheets. If IFI tells me it is O.K., then I will just supply the sheet (there is nothing else in the data sheet of any importance that the motor curve does not provide).

Also, I verified the other fisher-Price motor specifications (the ones with the plastic gearboxes):

Both motor graphs that FIRST has provided are the EXACT motor curves provided by Johnson Electric. I am very impressed that they provided the correct sheets this year. I am using the Fisher-Price motors and using the curves FIRST provided as they are correct.

The small CIM motor is identical to the ones provided in the kit last year. There are no changes at all. The same specifications apply and the kit gearbox works the exact same way it did last year. If you want to run it with 4 motors, you must purchase two this year.

-Paul

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Here are the specifics of the pulley on the output pinion of the large CIM motor:

Gates Rubber Co., 16 groove, 3mm pitch Powergrip GT, 15mm wide.

Paul,

Browsing through McMaster-Carr, it seems that they're listing 'Power Grip GT' belts as having a 5mm pitch. They do not carry any 3 mm pitch belting at all.

Is this simply because McMaster-Carr doesn't have it, or because you made a typo?

[Paul Copioli]

M.,

I am positive it is 3mm pitch. The spec from Fisher-Price says 3mm and I measured it to be 3mm. Go to www.gates.com to look up all types of belts.

Powergrip GT2 is the belting and it comes in 2, 3 and 5mm pitches (among others). The 15 mm wide belt seems to be pretty standard.

-Paul

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

M.,

I am positive it is 3mm pitch. The spec from Fisher-Price says 3mm and I measured it to be 3mm. Go to www.gates.com to look up all types of belts.

Powergrip GT2 is the belting and it comes in 2, 3 and 5mm pitches (among others). The 15 mm wide belt seems to be pretty standard.

-Paul

Thanks, Paul. I expected that it was simply that McMaster didn't carry it. Gates, even, has many local distributors for their product, so I'm better off with that than McMaster anyway.

[Spencer295]

Originally Posted by Richard

I have a Magtrol HD-715 dynamometer and Sorenson DCS 20-150 switchmode power supply in my day-job lab. I did a quick 12V test of the large CIM motor this morning. With the motor coupled to the dyno and no load (apart from dyno friction) applied the speed was 2710 RPM and the current was 1.5 Ampere. Peak efficiency was about 85% at 43 oz-in, 2470 RPM drawing 7.7 Ampere. Peak shaft power was about 218 Watts at 193 oz-in, 1530 RPM drawing 33.5 Ampere. The maximum steady load that I applied was 283 oz-in, 750 RPM drawing 51 Ampere. I did take the loading up to about 350 oz-in momentarily without stalling the motor, but did not leave it there long enough to record steady data.

Richard because your test results vary so drastically from the specs on previous posts on motor wattage, would you mind testing the old cim motors on your dyno so I can make an accurate comparison.

[Hutch]

Uhm, so I guess this begs the question, where are those 36 teams? It's been a week now and I haven't seen any specs posted by anyone except other people who decided to do it with the tools they have at work or whatever...

[Goldeye]

Are the specs for the Bosch Van Door available anywhere? I read that these are different from earlier years and can't find any info for new ones.

[petek]

Originally Posted by Goldeye

Are the specs for the Bosch Van Door available anywhere? I read that these are different from earlier years and can't find any info for new ones.

Basic specs on all the motors are in
FIRST Guidelines, Tips & Good Practices. Glad I went looking for this because FIRST posted a new revision.

[Nathan B.]

We used last years manual, becasue basicly there the same thing.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Spencer295

Richard because your test results vary so drastically from the specs on previous posts on motor wattage, would you mind testing the old cim motors on your dyno so I can make an accurate comparison.

I don't have an old CIM motor available to test right now. Will try to get one later this week.