Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?

[daviamp]

Hello,

I just have one question, can our team use a wireless 2.4 ghz video camera on our robot as a visual link between the driver and the robot, the video would then also be used for our end of season video, I have been searching all night and cannot find any rules against the use of this kind of camera, nor can I find anything in the support of it.

[Billfred]

I don't have any manual to cite, but historically the rule has been as follows:

1) The feed must go to the video board. No feeds to the driver's stations.
2) The camera must be cleared by FIRST Engineering.

[EricH]

If you are using it to provide feedback to the driver, I think that's illegal--can't remember where. Probably in Section 8 or Section 5 where it talks about controls. If you are just recording video, it's an NFD (I think). Q&A could tell you what the official answer is.

[Adam Richards]

<R103> Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the robot, such as remote cameras, must be cleared with FIRST Engineering prior to use. Teams may not use 900 MHz camera systems.

[Conor Ryan]

Theres more than one issue here I think

<R59> Custom Circuits may not:
• Interfere with the operation of other robots
• Directly alter the power pathways between the battery, fuse blocks, speed controller/relay, and motor.
Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to
the robot’s electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be
inconsequential.
• Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying
a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to a relay module
• Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance
station
• Connect to the radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller

[mechanicalbrain]

OK I have a history with this question and I think I have that answer. Yes a wireless camera can be used on your robot, provided it does not transmit on the 900 MHz band (many transmit on the 2.4 GHz range), to transmit anywhere but the player station. As soon as it transmits to the player station it's a sensor and not a decoration thus following the custom circuit rule of not being allowed to transmit to the player station. It's kind of a funny loop of two rules. I plan to use one but I'll be picking up the feed on my PC in the pits for website content. FIRST has been asked about this and their response in previous years has been what I said above, feel free to ask but I don't see any indication from the rules that they have changed their minds. If you still want a camera go to www.supercircuits.com They are literally the best place on the web, even Discovery channel interviewed them when they wanted info about spy cameras.

[dhitchco]

Hi mechanicalbrain,
thanks ever so much for that link to supercircuits.com for their 2.4GHz "spy" camera to mount onto the robot. I want to get one instead of clamping my vidfeo camera to our 'bot during build season......

Having an on-board camera could be a great training aid as well as a fun view to use for our highlights video.

However, as someone else pointed out, cameras DURING actual FIRST events need to be pre-approved.
<R103> Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the robot, such as remote cameras, must be cleared with FIRST Engineering prior to use. Teams may not use 900 MHz camera systems.

Personally, I would like to see this clarified to NOT allow any sort of camera at all DURING any official match, even if it's being transmitted to a DVR in the stands for training. Use during the build season is fine, just not during matches. As an example, what if a driver was to wear "stealth" video sunglasses that DID capture & show the video that was "meant" to go to the stands....Or what if someone in the stands was watching the on-board video and then yelling instructions to the drivers.....

Not fair nor in the spirit of FIRST......My opinion alone.......

[mechanicalbrain]

Originally Posted by dhitchco

Hi mechanicalbrain,
Personally, I would like to see this clarified to NOT allow any sort of camera at all DURING any official match, even if it's being transmitted to a DVR in the stands for training. Use during the build season is fine, just not during matches. As an example, what if a driver was to wear "stealth" video sunglasses that DID capture & show the video that was "meant" to go to the stands....Or what if someone in the stands was watching the on-board video and then yelling instructions to the drivers.....

Not fair nor in the spirit of FIRST......My opinion alone.......

Well I would be shocked to no end to see any team so grossly violate the rules but if a team is going to go such extremes to cheat nothing would stop them from hiding a camera their robot rule or no rule. Camera's have been used before, mostly for TV stations. If a team did violate the rules as you mentioned it would be quite obvious (even the best glasses Ive seen are obvious). The point is if a team is willing to go to such lengths to cheat then why would putting down rules like that stop them? Again I have trouble imagining another team doing something like that. Anything is a possibility and I seem to remember hearing things but mostly that was teams being confused about the rules.

[dhitchco]

mechanicalbrain,
I agree with you, that the use of on-board cameras during a few matches would be great for the audience, for TV stations, etc.

In that case, the camera should be supplied by the TV station or by FIRST and could be "strapped-on" to a random number of robots just before their match; assuming a team gives permission to be the token "camera-bot".

Or...better yet, maybe like NASCAR in-car cameras, somebody will actually PAY MY TEAM to carry their camera, and I could fund the whole venture....

Kodak is in my home town, bring on a sponsorship! Love the idea.

No...I don't think that a team really would "grossly violate" the rule, but the rule in place is pretty simple to NOT open-up Pandora's box of "what-ifs"...

I believe....I believe.....I believe......in Gracious Professionalism

[Excelsior]

I think it'd be great to have a camera recording that for future reference. Those kinds of videos would be tons of fun for websites and various awards meetings afterwards.

How much fun would that be?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

I think it'd be great to have a camera recording that for future reference. Those kinds of videos would be tons of fun for websites and various awards meetings afterwards.

How much fun would that be?

Yes, that video is very cool and that is why the robot rules allow teams to use wireless cameras under certain conditions and those requests need to be cleared before competition. I seem to remember a team that actually provided the video to the arena as another camera position.

[Steph]

Before the Greater Toronto Regional last year our team asked permission to use a wireless camera on our 'bot just for entertainment purposes (ie. to be shown as a different camera angle on the "big screen" during matches) and were permitted to for a certain number of matches. It was of no benifit to our drive team (turning around to look at the screen wasn't exactly practical during a match) but it did make the view for the audience much more exciting. In a game like this years' where more is played at ground level I think it would be even more exciting.

[cdfps]

Here is some onboard footage from team 348's 2006 robot at the NYC regional.


http://media.putfile.com/nyc-regional-1

The first minute is pretty boring, but it picks up when the game starts