Ramming and Hitting

[Angelfury126]

I'm wondering how aggressive teams can be on the field? Can you ram other teams from across the field or does that only apply to the ramp?
How bad can a robot hit or ram another robot until officials intervene?
I'm under the assumption that its a free for all and that you can go out and just punish the other robots on the field.

[KenWittlief]

when you get your robot done, and you have put 6 weeks of your life into it, and you know its strengths and weaknesses

then think about how hard you will want another team ramming your bot?

and you will have your answer.

aggressive play is only allowed to gain a decisive field position or scoring position. Ramming or bashing a robot to disable it, or to knock it over will get your team disqualified.

[kborer22]

you will be warned once, and if your lucky twice, but this year especially since there are no field elements to slow your down there will be A LOT of ramming penalties. And you will be frowned upon for malicious ramming...

[Kevin Sevcik]

To clarify, the Rules specifically state that ramming with a head start from across the field is illegal. As are strategies aimed solely at the destruction or disablement of other robots. As Ken says, pushing and very limited ramming are allowed solely to gain a positional advantage on the field. You must be trying to get somewhere or keep someone from getting somewhere, not attacking their robot. The only leeway given on the ramp is with respect to pinning.

Even a cursory glance at the rules makes this clear, so I'm uncertain where you got the impression that this is a "free-for-all".

[Greg Perkins]

Originally Posted by Angelfury126

I'm wondering how aggressive teams can be on the field? Can you ram other teams from across the field or does that only apply to the ramp?
How bad can a robot hit or ram another robot until officials intervene?
I'm under the assumption that its a free for all and that you can go out and just punish the other robots on the field.

In FIRST we don't use force to disable a robot...You can push, shove, and "hit" a robot; but intentionally ramming a robot from across the field is grounds for DQ. I've been a ref, and have had to make those calls...trust me, ramming a robot to defend a goal is one thing, but to ram them just to ram them is uncalled for. Use your best judgement, and always remember..."Gracious Professionalism" (Don't do something to another robot, unless you want it done to yourself)

[Excelsior]

FIRST is more of a sport than, say, Battlebots. Some contact is allowed, but within reason. Think basketball or something.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Greg Perkins

remember..."Gracious Professionalism" (Don't do something to another robot, unless you want it done to yourself)

Owch! Ive never seen a robot jump over the railing and start ramming an opposing driver, but I guess it could happen! :^)

(the golden rule of robotics for the 21st century: Do unto robots as you would have them do unto you)

[BRosser314]

Remember I believe that if you are goinjg to hit some other teams robot at full speed you cant be any further away then like 3 or 5 feeet. Someone please verify with me. But do u think that FIRST is going to disable those bots that are in a low gear and move at about 2ft/s get penalized if they are moving from across the arena and hit another robot and push them. Will that be classified as ramming because if they were to stop at 3 ft away the other robot could just move. I have looked throught the manual and as a senior I should know this, but is there a max speed that you can go when hitting another robot?

[Travis Hoffman]

I really wish the FIRST community would stop using the word "ram" to dually imply illegal actions and also perfectly legal bumping and pushing. It confuses people. There is no such thing as "good" ramming.

I'd like the word "ram" to be connotated negatively 100% of the time and be defined as any sort of illegal intentional hit initiated from a distance of greater than 3 ft. away from the targeted robot. I believe 3 feet is the accepted threshold.

When we post on this subject, please do not use the term "ram" to describe any legal robot interactions. "Bumping", "pushing", and "shoving" are much better descriptive terms here.

[Greg Perkins]

Originally Posted by BRosser314

Remember I believe that if you are goinjg to hit some other teams robot at full speed you cant be any further away then like 3 or 5 feeet. Someone please verify with me. But do u think that FIRST is going to disable those bots that are in a low gear and move at about 2ft/s get penalized if they are moving from across the arena and hit another robot and push them. Will that be classified as ramming because if they were to stop at 3 ft away the other robot could just move. I have looked throught the manual and as a senior I should know this, but is there a max speed that you can go when hitting another robot?

If a robot is in "low gear" as you said, that's not full speed. If a robot is moving at say 2 fps, you will not see a penalty or DQ, however if you were in "high gear" moving at another robot from across the field, need I even say the outcome? Let's try not to paint a grey area in what is now white or black. USE YOUR JUDGEMENT!!!

[Lil' Lavery]

Keep in mind that this year there are very clearly defined areas you may come into contact with other robots (aka "bumper zones"), and any contact outside of the bumper zones (unless clearly unintentional or coincidental with bumper zone contact) can be penelized. Although, if a robot expands beyond the original 28x38 starting dimensions it will forfeit any protection from the bumper zone rules it has.
So, if the contact is low I think there will be much much more leniency twoards you that if it's high, but "charging" or long-distance ramming will still be a risky decision no matter where you hit the other robot.

[Eria4044]

There are five reasons to not want to ram excessively.

1. Not GP.
2. Penalties
3. Anyone ever heard of the more negative version of the golden rule (I think it originated in the Far East)? Basically, it's "Do not to others what you would not have them do to you."
4. You're not going to make any friends.
5. There are other ways to win.

You may want to read the rules. There's all sorts of knowledge in them.

[sciencenerd]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

if a robot expands beyond the original 28x38 starting dimensions it will forfeit any protection from the bumper zone rules it has.

I believe this is incorrect. According to <R35>, the only constraint on the placement of the bumpers is that they must be between 2.5 and 8.5 inches high. Also, this question in the Q&A seems to imply they are still legal outside the starting area.

[KenWittlief]

Dave and Mike,

normally teams will have several auton routines that they can select at the start of a match. For this reason you would normally have no way of knowing where your opponents robots will be during auton mode, therefore you could not intentionally 'program' your robot to ram someone elses bot with the intention of causing damage (normally).

as a result you will see bot collisions - possibly full speed collisions as a result of bots trying to get into a particular field position. As long as contact is limited to the bumper zones (a robot does not pull out a javalin!) there should be no foul or penalty.

as for someone designing a robot to seek and destroy during auton mode, that is definately an exception - I think it would be obvious if a robot tracks other bots in every match and repeatedly backs up and rams them. In that case, definately DQ them for the entire event. But I got $100 here that says you will not see a FIRST team design a robot for that purpose.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

therefore you could not intentionally 'program' your robot to ram someone elses bot with the intention of causing damage (normally).

Sure you can, and it has been done before. In 2003 there were a few teams who had autonomous programs that shot under the bar with hopes of ramming a slow or non-moving robot from the opposing alliance. I won't speculate as to whether damage was intended but the ramming certainly was. This year you could program your robot to drive straight across the field at full speed with hopes of running into an opponent that did not have autonomous (and therefore would be sitting still on the other end of the field).

Of course there's the possibility of accidental collisions (possibly violent) because you don't know where the other guy is going, and this should not be penalized. However, if it is apparent that a robot's autonomous was designed with the intention of running into another robot then the rule should apply (and that was what was communicated in the past). A robot that drives around aimlessly on the field at high speed with no intention of scoring might be an example of this.