do you guys attend classes regularly during the time between kickoff and shipment?

[dutta]

Personally, I can't afford to miss any school, but when it comes down to the last week, the true diehards of our team will "skip" a few days of school and spend the day building

[Daniel Morse]

Wow, I am in envy of those people whose schools cut them any slack in any way. While most of our teachers and staff support the team, academics are always a priority. We always have a semester change in the middle of the season, and I had an easy first semester, so I had lots of time for robotics, then second semester rolled around, and Calculus came into my life. Now I have much less time available, but spend the same time at robotics. Not the best idea I have ever had. The upshot? I attend all my classes and robotics and lose sleep.

[Nimmy]

why don't you guys talk with your principal about this?
just tell them that you will do everything during the month after shipment,
this will mean that instead of 1.5 months of extreme stress, you'll have 2.5months of moderate stress, that will clear up more time for the robot, and I'm sure that with more time spent the quality of FIRST will go up, if the quality of this competition (which is already very high) goes up, so will it's popularity AND growth, after all, at the end of the day the goals of FIRST and of your schools are the same, if kids get a brake if they join FIRST, more of them will take interest in engineering and science, it works over here, I know that one of the MAIN reasons I joined robotics was because students who take this class appreciated and get a "break" when one is needed,
one of the school-system main goals is to "create" (if you will), productive-citizens, I don't see a program more suitable to enhance that goal then FIRST.

just my 2 cents =)

[J Flex 188]

Nimmy, while thats an amazing idea and something that probably works really well for you guys theres just too much variation in school board and school specific policies when it comes to FIRST. Our teacher-mentor has to fill out at least a dozen pages of paperwork for each regional we go on and we in turn have to fill out just as many to attend them. In my last three years of high school, I was lucky enough to have teachers understand the amount of effort that I put into school and when it came down to the end, especially for university marks and scholarship potential, they were generous enough to allow me a 0.5-1% bump up, unofficially speaking of course. But throughout the entire year, the only classes I missed were for competitions. I never skipped a single class for robotics. Even if you are dead tired, at least show up and explain and see if you can absorb any sort of information. If you are cordial and polite with your teachers, preach the values of FIRST to them, no self-respecting teacher is going to stop you from putting your best efforts into it. Just remember that no matter what, academics should come FIRST!

You work hard, you play hard when it comes to the regional competitions. Spend the time during build season either at robotics or working. It is very very hard not to do things with your friends during this time, but the payoff is well worth it at the end.

As for attending robotics while in university, the great Shawn Lim, my boss and now a fellow alumni mentor at 188 explained to me that it was going to be quite difficult. It was probably more compounded for him since he attended Kettering =P. I am lucky enough be in international business, with only about 15 hours of class time a week at York University, which is only about 30-40 minutes away from 188's home base. I commute back and forth on free nights, usually Mondays, Thursdays to Sundays. Almost makes me feel like I am a high school student again.

Also a final note to new college mentors like myself, remember your police checks!

[Steve S.]

just my 2 cents:
our teachers dont really care what we are doing....whether we are on the floor sleeping or not, if we are sleeping or not paying attention, we get detention......yea kinda sucks but oh well

[LightWaves1636]

seven classes and I'm hanging in there and in all classes(except sixth, cause I help with the build) my laptop is always out and I'm working on the code as much as I can. then after school until 8 or so(tonight was til 9:30 and so was last night) I work on the bot some more.

[David55]

I think that these situations are caused by different school systems in the US and israel.

In israel, you earn "units" by doing tests in different subjects. This may be similar to your finals.
To finish highschool you have to earn a certain amount of units by passing several tests in different subjects (math, english, history, citizenship, hebrew, literature and a major subject). As you can see, one of the requirements for finishing hishschool is majoring in a subject. For some students, the subject they are majoring in is robotics (there are literally hundreds of subjects you can major in, from physics to chemistry to bible, languages and even hotel management). Anyway, for some robotics majors, FIRST is their final project, meaning they can't get a high school diploma without doing it and writing a project about it.
Most of the finals (like history, english, part of math, hebrew) are done in 10th and 11th grade, meaning that in 12th grade you really only do literature, math, citizenship and your major, which lets the school give you 6 weeks off of school to do your final project.

For you there is school and FIRST, for us FIRST is school.

I also think that school is taken in a whole different way by the American and Israeli youth. In israel, most finish with highschool, go to the army for 3 years and then do a trip around the world for about a year. Only after that, at the age of 23-24, only start to think about universities and do the Israeli equivalent of SAT's.
In the US, highschool is basically a big race for colleges. Grades are taken very siriously. people study for hours a day, do extra curicular activities, and with the rest of their time study for the SAT's, all so they get into an IV league university. Highschool in Israel is a lot more relaxed, grades are not taken as seriously and people have time to really enjoy the last years before army and adulthood. They always have a chance to improve their grades after the army.


(If anyone is interested, I can explain a bit more about the school system here. It is a quite interesting one, but really stupid and useless.)

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by David55

I think that these situations are caused by different school systems in the US and israel.

In israel, you earn "units" by doing tests in different subjects. This may be similar to your finals.
To finish highschool you have to earn a certain amount of units by passing several tests in different subjects (math, english, history, citizenship, hebrew, literature and a major subject). As you can see, one of the requirements for finishing hishschool is majoring in a subject. For some students, the subject they are majoring in is robotics (there are literally hundreds of subjects you can major in, from physics to chemistry to bible, languages and even hotel management). Anyway, for some robotics majors, FIRST is their final project, meaning they can't get a high school diploma without doing it and writing a project about it.
Most of the finals (like history, english, part of math, hebrew) are done in 10th and 11th grade, meaning that in 12th grade you really only do literature, math, citizenship and your major, which lets the school give you 6 weeks off of school to do your final project.

For you there is school and FIRST, for us FIRST is school.

I also think that school is taken in a whole different way by the American and Israeli youth. In israel, most finish with highschool, go to the army for 3 years and then do a trip around the world for about a year. Only after that, at the age of 23-24, only start to think about universities and do the Israeli equivalent of SAT's.
In the US, highschool is basically a big race for colleges. Grades are taken very siriously. people study for hours a day, do extra curicular activities, and with the rest of their time study for the SAT's, all so they get into an IV league university. Highschool in Israel is a lot more relaxed, grades are not taken as seriously and people have time to really enjoy the last years before army and adulthood. They always have a chance to improve their grades after the army.


(If anyone is interested, I can explain a bit more about the school system here. It is a quite interesting one, but really stupid and useless.)

I wished I lived in a civilized nation like that!

The system in europe, at least in some places, is somewhat similar, at least in regards to examinations being more important than "work". I really don't understand the whole concept of school "work"....

[arabsponsor]

Originally Posted by Nimmy

well I was wondering how it is in other school considering the amount of time
needed to invest in the FIRST project, I know I'm at the project every day (Sunday-Thursday) from around 4:30PM to anywhere between 1 and 7AM (depending on our mentor since, for insurance reasons, we have to stay with a supervising teacher adult)

the school is alright with us missing the classes (being a senior I only have about 4 different ones) and even gives the FIRST students special TEST dates
so we can study after the project is over
is this like that in all schools?

You must attend a very laid back, or supportive school. If any of our students skip a class they get three days of ISS and can not attend any school functions (ie build meetings) until their ISS time is up. As the sponsor, I can't miss class as I am the teacher. In all honesty, our school treats robotics kind of like a stepchild. We get no financial support from the school and the only time they show any interest is when they need us to do something for them.

[BrianR]

Our school is fairly strict on skipping class, and we don't get extensions for FIRST, as this is only our second year, and I can't imagine they will ever give us that. But some teachers are kind enough to look the other way when we pass out in class, or try to finish hw for other classes in their classes.

We try to work from 4-11 each night, if not later, but I'm in the tough situation of having a sport at the same time. If I miss too much track, I'll have to do a million laps when I start coming again, but it means I miss 3 hours of build time every day. I do know that during this final week, I've been trying to cut out early along with another guy, just to get some more stuff done. All I know is that once this is over I'm going to sleep for once, and I'll enjoy it!

[Nimmy]

so let me get this straight...when you do FIRST, it's not part of your classes? I mean, you diploma\GPA whatever has nothing to do with FIRST? (except for it affecting it in a bad manner due to lack of sleep of course )?

FIRST is about 1/3 of my diploma, and it will probably raise my Grade average by about 10%-20% not to mention the fact that if im lucky I might even get a scholarship in the US =) (*Crosses fingers*), something I could have never afford on my own...

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Nimmy

so let me get this straight...when you do FIRST, it's not part of your classes? I mean, you diploma\GPA whatever has nothing to do with FIRST? (except for it affecting it in a bad manner due to lack of sleep of course )?

For us, it's what's known as an Extracurricular Acitvity. Maybe an elective, if you're lucky. As such, it has little to no effect on the grade. Some schools have it as a class, so those students get credit for doing robotics, but that's not common.

[IraJason]

Originally Posted by Nimmy

so let me get this straight...when you do FIRST, it's not part of your classes? I mean, you diploma\GPA whatever has nothing to do with FIRST? (except for it affecting it in a bad manner due to lack of sleep of course )?

FIRST is about 1/3 of my diploma, and it will probably raise my Grade average by about 10%-20% not to mention the fact that if im lucky I might even get a scholarship in the US =) (*Crosses fingers*), something I could have never afford on my own...

As stated in the post above me, it really depends on the school you go to. Some schools have it as a class that you can sign up to take, or some schools such as mine have it as an after school club. I get club credit for being involved with FIRST, but it doesn't affect my GPA at all. That's also part of the reason why some schools don't allow people to miss class to do FIRST related work. They see FIRST as an extracurricular activity, something that should be done outside of your schoolwork rather as instead of it. I've had one or two teachers already talk to me about getting to class on time because I spend all the period before working on the robot...

[Nimmy]

well I hope robotics will be more wide spread as something you can major in as FIRST grows, that way the project will be like part of your GPA or like a "final-project", im sure it will raise the quality of the robots once school recognize it more

[Drew Hopman]

Originally Posted by Nimmy

well I hope robotics will be more wide spread as something you can major in as FIRST grows, that way the project will be like part of your GPA or like a "final-project", im sure it will raise the quality of the robots once school recognize it more

Our school systems here in America focus on a wide variety of subjects to make the student more aware of the ideas that he/she could be. Then in college is where the student is to focus on a specific major.

Right now I am going to a local community college. I slack off in the quality of work I am doing right now because I am focused on FIRST. This is a bad thing that is going to hurt my grades. But next year I am going to a different college that is pretty far away down in Bocca Raton, this way I am not distracted by first. When I participated in First in high school, homework and class work was never an option. The only time that was excused was when we were at competition, and we were still expected to make up the work. This is pretty much what you are going to find anywhere in America. I don’t believe that you will see it as a major impact on your gpa here because there are many other classes that you are required to take.

Our team meets after school till about 6 each mon, wed, and Thursdays, in addition for 6 hours on Sunday. We design what we need after school, send it off to the machine shop, they cut it the next day, then we get it by that evening, and assemble later that night. It’s a pretty efficient system that we have set up this year, providing the most free time for all the participants and mentors. I believe that you can learn more with an efficient schedule rather than one that is overworked.