Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Yesterday when making a post about rookie teams I got walked all over


What Does everyone think? After getting trampled and receiving -120 rep points i could use a little help

[Taylor_Ratliff]

Some people just dont know how to take critisism, this board is a great recourse for FIRST teams but [insert your diety here] dangit, you people need to toughen up!

[Kevin Sevcik]

After reading your posts, I suspect that a large number of the members of this forum decided that someone wondering if everyone hates rookie FIRST teams probably didn't have the kind of positive attitude towards helping out other teams that is typically prized on this forum and in the FIRST competition. Thus the negative reps.

[sanddrag]

It takes a lot for me to give negative rep to someone. But there's a few on here who seem to have no problem giving it out like candy.

[mechanicalbrain]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

It takes a lot for me to give negative rep to someone. But there's a few on here who seem to have no problem giving it out like candy.

Ditto I don't think Ive given out one yet. One thing to keep in mind is that emotion and tone don't carry over well over the Internet. Though content of posts might play into it a bit. Something I had to learn, keep in mind that you are writing to all types of people mentors, sponsors, students, teachers, veteran team members, new team members, rookie teams, etc... It helps to review posts to see if theirs something in their that CD on a whole might not approve of. You can't please everybody and their are cases where people generally do overreact to posts but I don't think that thread fits in either category. Just think posts over.

Also J Flex 188 has it on the dot. I find if someone has a problem with something someone posts and it's a big enough deal that they feel the urge to negative rep that person it might be more beneficial and productive to message them first. Sometimes people really don't know that what they are saying may be offensive. Most people are reasonable enough to change their post or keep what you said in mind in the future as long as you aren't hostile in your mail. Also it may be good for readers to look at a post and think "Is it the post or is it just me". Sometimes we over react to things and thats where a PM can clear a bunch of confusion.

[KenWittlief]

to get hit with that many - rep points in one day Pyro must have hit a raw nerve with a lot of people!

very often new (freshman) teams do have problems. Sometimes we do get rookie teams who think FIRST is battlebots, or who are way skewed on the mentor designed/student designed balance of things.

We have awards for rookie-of-the-year at regionals because it IS very challenging for a rookie team to excell side by side with vetran teams.

That being said, if you post something on CD and the red dots start flowing your way, you do have the option to go back and edit what you said, or to acknowledge that you appear to have offended a lot of people.

The irony of all this is Pryo has 14 posts, so he is a rookie on this forum. People are jumping on his case for making generalizations about rookie teams and at the same time wacking his rep for acting like, well... like a CD rookie :^)

CD rookie: someone new to the forum who does not yet understand the norms and workings of this place.

[Joel J]

If you say anything other than what everyone expects you to say, then you will be reacted to. If you calculate well, and determine what words would be most effective, then you'll float upstream.

If you must say what's on your mind, then you may have to learn to do it well. That is, you have to convince everyone that what you think is actually the way to go. You do this by presenting your ideas exactly how everyone expects to hear them (psst, they don't have to be valid, they just need to be said properly).

Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Joel J.

Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..

Manipulation?

[Joe Johnson]

You bring up a lot of good points.

I believe that the organizers and moderators and everyone associated with these fora are worried about how to manage this and how to strike the right balance.

It has gotten harder and harder as the shear number of posts gets too big to read without making a full time job.

I think some of the problem comes from variations in moderator style.

Shear numbers dicated that we've had to open up the moderation to a larger number of people. This has lead to some variation between what moderators accept. We try to use similar standards, but it is not easy to get a group of people to all rule identically.

So... ...do we need to get a little thicker skin? Maybe.

Are neg. rep points a problem? Probaby yes, in some cases.

Do we need to open the fora up to all comers and all comments? No.

This thread is a good opportunity to think about how we can improve.

I think we can all support more free speech if there is a general concenus among ChiefDelphi.com users that yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater is not an acceptable use of that freedom.

Joe J.

[JakeOfIron]

On CD, as in life, you have to say what you want carefully, (and it's a lot easier on CD, where you get to look over your words before you post them) but at the same time, if we spend all our lives trying to sidestep offending someone, we never get anything done. Did Dean Kamen worry about the minority that would hate Segways when he designed them? No, he thought about the people that would benefit from them!

And though I hate to say it, because I know in life I've offended a lot of people for blurting something out before I thought about it, but Pyro, your thread was a little offensive. Maybe if it was something like, "Are rookie teams treated like freshmen," fewer people would have been irritated. As is, I think you got more bad rep from freshmen who took offense at the negative connotation you put on their name.

But like I said, we all say and do dumb things, me especially, and sometimes all you can do is apologize.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Joel J.

If you say anything other than what everyone expects you to say, then you will be reacted to. If you calculate well, and determine what words would be most effective, then you'll float upstream.

If you must say what's on your mind, then you may have to learn to do it well. That is, you have to convince everyone that what you think is actually the way to go. You do this by presenting your ideas exactly how everyone expects to hear them (psst, they don't have to be valid, they just need to be said properly).

Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..

Ya know, I often think that we as FIRSTers often get wrapped up in the "lets change the world through gracious professionalism" way of life. It often shows here on Chief Delphi, and people tend to take a post for what is said instead of what it truely is. I think Joel hit something right on the head with his response...and whether we like it or not, its the truth. The FIRST community as a whole kinda has its own way of speaking, thinking, and acting. Often when an individual says something that might be contraversial or edgy, they get flamed because it goes against your typical "normalcy" found on this board. Take for instance Pyro's post. Valid point and conversation topic...just horribly said. Unfortunately as a result of not wording it in the "gracious professionalistic" kind of way, the true value of the post got left behind, and next thing you know the thread is locked. People see the wording, they immediately jump to action, clicking the negative rep button as fast as they possibly can, and next thing you know...everything spirals downhill.

My point is this...maybe sometimes along with judging how someone posts, we all need to also judge how we ourselves react.

It does seem like everyone is a little thin skinned lately. Of course that is just my opinion.

[KathieK]

I read your thread this afternoon and it seemed as though you were asking a rhetorical question designed to generate a lot of response. If I were wondering what other teams thought of rookie teams, I'm not sure I would have phrased it quite that way and it could have generated a lively (healthy) debate on the subject (although I think I know what most people would say).

We all make posts we wish we could take back. We all have typos, misspellings and poor grammar occasionally. We all feel strongly about certain aspects of this program, and that is what makes it so special. We all have mis-interpreted a post because we are not having a face-to-face discussion and cannot detect body language or speech inflections or have forgotten to put a smilie face next to something meant to be a joke. Are we thin-skinned? I don't think so.

[IraJason]

Well... after reading your thread, you did come off as a bit negative towards rookie teams.

As being a member of a rookie team and participating in an off-season event, I would have to say that many veteran teams and members are willing to help out rookie teams and accept them into the FIRST community. I personally have never been looked down upon by members of other teams or on these boards for being a rookie. In fact, our team has been praised by some for getting as far as we have this season. Everyone here is just trying to help each other out, and it is usually frowned upon when somebody says something offensive or rude about other members of the FIRST community, especially when they are new and are trying to be accepted into the community as a whole.

Now would I penalize you for your comments? Personally, no I wouldn't. I would formulate my own argument on why I do not agree with you, and see where it goes from there. Yes, some people are quick to judge, and would rather punish you for what you have already said rather then hearing what you reply to them, but that is why you should be as professional and as courteous as possible when posting. Come up with a full fledged argument that anyone can understand, then let people respond to it. We are all grown ups here, and we should be able to carry out civilized conversations that prove that.

With that put out there, I must add one last thing. In any place, whether it be on these forums or out in daily life, everyone should be as courteous and professional as possible to one another. You never know who may be out there that may take offense to what you say and penalize you greatly for it. Like Dean Kamen said, "Life isn't fair." Sometimes you just got to suck it up and take the consequences for your actions.

[KenWittlief]

everyone picks up on the 'professional' part of GP, but very often we gloss over the 'gracious' part

being gracious is when your long lost cousin shows up for your wedding, wearing blue jeans and a Tee shirt

and instead of ripping his spleen out through his nostrils, you tell him how great he looks, how happy your are to see him,

and hey I just happen to have a new dress shirt and tie that would look great on you (almost as if you were prepared for something predictable?)

[aaeamdar]

Originally Posted by IraJason

Well... after reading your thread, you did come off as a bit negative towards rookie teams.

In fact, our team has been praised by some for getting as far as we have this season. Everyone here is just trying to help each other out, and it is usually frowned upon when somebody says something offensive or rude about other members of the FIRST community, especially when they are new and are trying to be accepted into the community as a whole.

I would encourage everyone here to go and read the thread. While it is true that we frown upon rude or offensive behaviour and we definitely /should/ frown upon it, this statement implies something that is not exactly true. I agree with you that rookie teams are not looked down upon.
upon upon upon.

Paul Dennis