Limiting teams to Nationals

[Madison]

Originally posted by Joe Ross


Actually, I heard that Epcot's parking lot is the second largest in the world, and the largest is a parking structure.

This was quite a while ago, but it would be hard to find someplace as large as Epcot's parking lot

The last time I saw any information on this, Disneyland's new parking garage was the largest in the world, followed immediately by the twin parking garages on Universal Orlando's property.

Animal Kingdom's got to have a big parking lot too, since it's got more acreage than Epcot. But, Epcot's capacity is still higher.

[Jessica Boucher]

Lowest Attendance:
January (except New Year's Day) until just prior to Presidents' week in February
The week following Labor Day until just prior to Thanksgiving week
The week following Thanksgiving until the week prior to Christmas

Moderate Attendance:
After Presidents' week in February through early March
Late April through early June (except Memorial Day weekend)
The first part of Thanksgiving week

Highest Attendance:
Presidents' week in February
Mid-March through Late April ("Spring Break")
Memorial Day weekend
Mid-June through Labor Day
Thanksgiving Day and weekend
Christmas week through New Year's Day



So, that answers that question.

[patrickrd]

I heard this idea mentioned at the team forum, and after more thought, I think it may be the second best solution (next to allowing all teams to go to nationals). The basic idea was to split the teams up for nationals. Half would compete earlier in the week (e.g. mon-wed); the other half would compete later in the week (thurs-sat). For both Disney and FIRST, this would add a very small cost -- easily offset by the increased number of teams coming. This idea seemed to dismissed, perhaps without good reason. The reason for dismissing it was because it would be infeasible for the winners of the competition earlier in the week to stay and compete at the end of the week. Later on in the team forum, they raised the idea of having two separate nationals on opposite sides of the country -- and bring perhaps the winners of each together later on in the year to decide a [inter]national champion. This seemed like a favorable idea. This, however, would mean double cost to FIRST since it would need two separate events. Also, it would be a lot easier to take the winner of each of the half of a two-part Disney nationals (or perhaps divisional winners of each half), and bring them together a month or two later for a playoff in NH or another location. This cost for the final playoffs (a one-day event) could either be absorbed by teams, FIRST, or a third-party sponsor. Costs would be minimal because it would be: (a) smaller than a regional, (b) a one day event, and (c) perhaps located in NH where FIRST and Dean have places they could host it.

If we utilize Disney for both nationals that happen during the same weekh, we nearly cut the cost in half of what it would take to have two separate nationals. All FIRST & Disney would need to do is set up the tents a few days earlier.

This by far seems the most cost effective option that excludes zero teams. If we double again in size in a few years, we can split nationals into four parts over two weeks. This solution is flexible enough to work with much greater growth than we see today.

Patrick

[Madison]

Originally posted by patrickrd
If we utilize Disney for both nationals that happen during the same weekh, we nearly cut the cost in half of what it would take to have two separate nationals. All FIRST & Disney would need to do is set up the tents a few days earlier.

This by far seems the most cost effective option that excludes zero teams. If we double again in size in a few years, we can split nationals into four parts over two weeks. This solution is flexible enough to work with much greater growth than we see today.

Patrick

But, how do you plan for that?

It's one thing to say to say it's not cost effective for the winning to team to hand around a few days for a competitor. . . but, how can a team plan for that prospect at all?

Would every team be expected to book an entire weeklong stay on the remote possibility that they may be competing in the final events? Since most teams won't ever get that far, how do you justify the expense? Additionally, how can you get everyone to agree that it's okay for a team to miss that much school on the slight chance they might compete.

Holding the finals at some later date would work, but it would absolutely destroy all interest and momentum created by Nationals. I don't want to watch everyone compete for three days and then have no resolution as to who wins. That sucks.

Now. . .something just occurred to me. . . what about satellite events around Epcot? It'll be effectively the same as splitting the competition up between the parks, but it'll make moving teams around a bit less cumbersome, I think..... at least, in some respects.

There's our main site, of course. The Millenium Pavilion is sitting dormant on the west (I think) side of World Showcase. I refused to go in during the Millenium Celebration in protest of its ugly cheesiness, but it's pretty big. The Oddysey Restaurant is empty, but it's go low ceilings, but it could be great for auxiliary uses.
We could also set up a bit in The Yacht and Beach Club parking lot. They're quite close to Epcot.

Park admission is the biggest hurdle to that plan, but maybe FIRST could get to Disney to allow FIRST into Epcot during the competition hours (no use trying to get 'em out ), and regular admission media would be required for everything else.

Robots and things could be shuttled around backstage, as there's a road that wraps all the way around World Showcase.

[patrickrd]

Originally posted by Michael Krass


But, how do you plan for that?

It's one thing to say to say it's not cost effective for the winning to team to hand around a few days for a competitor. . . but, how can a team plan for that prospect at all?

This could be a couple months later, so teams would have time to arrange for transportation. They would have time to do fundraisers. Optionally, FIRST could budget a portion of the entrance fee at nationals to help get these teams to this competition.. We're talking about 8 teams, and this event would hopefully be considered nothing more than a post-season competion -- an opportunity for some of the best robots to get together and see what they can do. Why is there even a need to declare a national champion? Is that more important than limiting teams from participating in nationals?

Now, switching subjects onto the option of placing a limit on the number of teams going to nationals, I think there is a problem. Personally, and I speak personally and not for my team, I would have a huge problem going to nationals with the knowledge that because my team is going, another is not. It's not my position to judge which group of students (my group or the team we'd be excluding) would be more influenced by a trip to nationals. I simply cannot imagine participating in nationals with the knowledge that another team, because of my team, is sitting at home watching the competition on NASA TV. Also, how could a national champion be declared when not all teams are even given a shot? Every team that has the desire and resources to go to nationals should be allowed to participate.

Patrick

[Shannon Maloney]

Originally posted by Michael Krass


Now. . .something just occurred to me. . . what about satellite events around Epcot? It'll be effectively the same as splitting the competition up between the parks, but it'll make moving teams around a bit less cumbersome, I think..... at least, in some respects.

There's our main site, of course. The Millenium Pavilion is sitting dormant on the west (I think) side of World Showcase. I refused to go in during the Millenium Celebration in protest of its ugly cheesiness, but it's pretty big. The Oddysey Restaurant is empty, but it's go low ceilings, but it could be great for auxiliary uses.
We could also set up a bit in The Yacht and Beach Club parking lot. They're quite close to Epcot.

Park admission is the biggest hurdle to that plan, but maybe FIRST could get to Disney to allow FIRST into Epcot during the competition hours (no use trying to get 'em out ), and regular admission media would be required for everything else.

Robots and things could be shuttled around backstage, as there's a road that wraps all the way around World Showcase.

Well, that could be a good idea except the millenium village isn't there anymore because it's right next to the Yacht and Beach club and that is where they are putting the new yacht and beach club villas, part of the disney vacation club. the oddysey restaurant, while it is empty, it is used for many cast member only things and private events. and there couldn't be a pit it the yacht and beach club parking lot either because it's two lots for two seperate hotels and neither lot is big enough, espically with the new construction.

~~Shannon~~
**Team 250**

[Madison]

Originally posted by Shannon Maloney


Well, that could be a good idea except the millenium village isn't there anymore because it's right next to the Yacht and Beach club and that is where they are putting the new yacht and beach club villas, part of the disney vacation club. the oddysey restaurant, while it is empty, it is used for many cast member only things and private events. and there couldn't be a pit it the yacht and beach club parking lot either because it's two lots for two seperate hotels and neither lot is big enough, espically with the new construction.

~~Shannon~~
**Team 250**

Well, it figures that the only way Disney would demolish that ugly thing would be to build something that'll bring in cash . . . It would be too kind of them to consider building another country or something. Nooo....leave it to Disney to add thousands of new hotel rooms in a down-turn economy, especially when occupancy rates are way below what they expected.

At any rate, it was just a suggestion. I was just trying to point out that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of place that Disney could house us. You, of all people, should know that

Maybe FIRST can just design a water-based game. . .I mean, it seems like everyone wants to see that, and the World Showcase Lagoon and Crescent Lake ought to provide more than enough space . . .

~ Michael, who wonders if Shannon remembers him, and if this conversation make any sense to anyone beside him, Christina, and Shannon.

[Shannon Maloney]

World Showcase as the playing field, i like it!

~~Shannon, who yes, remembers Michael and Christina~~
**Team 250**