The Niagara Triplets the best team(s) in 2006?

[Rohan_DHS]

Having faced 1114 and 1503 in the finals has DEFINATELY been our hardest match.

Individually, I think that they (all 3...equally) are the strongest bots in the GTR, but I can't say for all FIRST events, since this is the only one we've attended =P.

1680 were awesome allies and I would love to be allies with them again if I got the chance! (same with 1305)

[JVN]

The triplets are the real deal.
I am VERY impressed.

I've gotten the chance to watch them for the past 2 weekends (Waterloo & GTR); in both of these events they have been absolutely incredible.

Their strategy is solid, their offensive firepower is undeniable and overwhelming, their drivetrain is practically immobile, and when pressed they can play some of the best defense I've seen.

To see a triplet fight it's way into position, and spin up it's shooter wheels, is an intimidating image. The impressive thing being, that it is almost impossible to move them. (Seriously, it seems their "staying ability" rivals many robots from 2002.)

That said:
This is an alliance game. There are many robots who can beat the triplets if they have good partners, and the triplets do not. However, 1114+1503 with a solid offensive or defensive robot is a great combination.

No, they haven't faced 111. No they haven't faced 71. No they haven't faced 254... 1126... 20... 233... 25... etc, etc... but they HAVE faced 68, 469, 217, 229, and many others, and they have certainly proven themselves again and again. They have earned my respect and admiration, and I bet they'll earn yours soon enough.
I can only imagine some of the matches we will see in Atlanta.

This solid robot, masterminded by some of the best strategists in FIRST, supported by some of the best scouts in FIRST, with a solid driveteam, pitcrew, and coach is certainly not to be trifled with. They just always seem to come out on top.

I would not be surprised to see one or more of them on Einstein...
That's the way it is,
-JV

PS - The last team to win 3 regionals in a season, met with unceremonious defeat at Championships. Is this the fate of 1114 and 1503?

[Nawaid Ladak]

1680's Ticket is punched for Atlanta.

speaking of that stratagy. couldn't a team aim for the #8 spot, say one of the triplets. while the other two dissipear. therefore, all three are together as #8 seed allince.

hopefullly im not giving 1114, 1503, and 1680 ideas for nats. but there is a very real chance that at least two of them will be in one division, check the rumor mill championship division thread for details.

btw, i think after today there are currently 312 teams who could or have regestered for nats.

i think if you put 25, 254, and a fast shooter like 233 or 86 agenst them......we could see the first match where both teams go into triple digits. and possibly a new high score over 159

you guys agree or disagree

[Tim Delles]

The Triplets,

These are some great robots. However they have a weakness that is hard to get over, and it is exactly how we won the first match in the semi-finals. But then again all teams have thier weakness.

To say a team is the best in FIRST is a huge statement. That says thier is no combination that can beat them.

Now given that 1114, 1503, and 1680 are nearly impossible to push, they can still be beat, even together.

Also as John pointed out, they haven't faced many of the teams that you associate with being the best FIRST has to offer. They have beat 469, 217, 68. But they are still yet to face 25, 71, 111, 233, 254.

But yes they have a great alliance, as Karthik reminded us no one has won 3 regionals since ChiefDelphi did it last.

Tim

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by FreedomForce

1680's Ticket is punched for Atlanta.

speaking of that stratagy. couldn't a team aim for the #8 spot, say one of the triplets. while the other two dissipear. therefore, all three are together as #8 seed allince.

If teams actually did thier scouting then that would never happen. sorry

[Nawaid Ladak]

Thats why scouting is soooo much more important at nationals....and soooo much harder. I doubt that teams will make a mistake not to pick them.... but im not sure, it just could happen...

btw, with you guys stating that there are so many better robots than the triplets, would you guys be willing to state that even if they tried to get that #1 pick, that they would end up there, where would you put their ranking in a division like situation.

[Beth Sweet]

Ok my loud mouth (well, typing fingers, you get the idea) has waited long enough to voice my opinion on this thread.

The first thing I want to say, and then I'll stick to the topic of the thread, is that the students on these three teams have got to be some of the classiest high school students I have seen in a long time. Canada, their schools and their sponsors could not ask for better representation. I had the privilage of sitting with them during the Great Lakes Regional and was absolutely moved by the level of class and true FIRST spirit that these kids emulated. It's an experience that everyone should try given the opportunity.

Now to the quality of their robots. This was my fourth weekend going to regional competitions. Granted my views will be prejudiced toward midwest regionals, but that's where I've been. The first of this series was Great Lakes, then Detroit, Wisconsin and West Michigan respectively. Maybe it was because they were the first dominator machines I saw this season, maybe I was just so impressed overall, but the Triplets truly stick out in my mind. The machines have been superbly built and they are astonishingly accurate. I was taken aback from the start, watching the teams get pushed at times, but still continuously shooting successfully. That's just cool. These machines are awesome.

Now before I'm accused of gush (a journalist's worst nightmare!), I must admit, I have seen a number of other very impressive machines this year. The ones that stick out most prominently in my mind being 469 (Detroit), 111, 1625 (WI), and the Martian twins (WI and WMR). These are also pretty darn good machines. There are a lot of machines that were well manufactured this year. There are also a lot of very impressive strategies.

So can other machines pull off a Triplet takeover? I guess that's one that only time will tell.

[Ianworld]

I really hate to just come out and say that a robot is the best in FIRST. Thats a really tough comment to make and I feel some guilt as if I'm discounting other team's and their amazing efforts. That being said...

I think the Triplets are amazing. There is only one mark against them and total dominance and that is their lack of a turret. I watched 25 compete in the NJ regional. The triplets may be nearly impossible to move but 25 seemed impossible to stop. You could bang them, bump them, push them, shove them and it just wouldn't matter. Their turret always nailed the shots. I would say that they took the brunt of defensive plays often being shoved by two or three robots and it just wouldn't matter. That being said 25 is also far from perfect. They can't collect off the ground and they're slightly harder to human load. They're pushing power is however up there with the strongest.

Watching the triplets in the GTR broadcast I realized that maybe a turret doesn't matter. The triplets always seemed to get on target and nobody could dislodge them. If there was interference on the field they'd go on top of the ramp. If somebody was in their way they found an opening and unleashed a hail of balls. Intimidating barely describes the performance they put on. They also collected from the ground and were easy to human load to boot.

Now while their performance was incredible for the matches I saw that isn't enough in my mind to secure their position as the best robots in FIRST. What secures it in my mind is the fact that they have now won three regionals. To win three regionals means that even in the face of the extreme randomness of the qualifying matches, the tough battles of the finals and the repetitive stress of multiple competitions they never faltered. That is truly impressive. That is a type of dominance that I have never seen in my FIRST robotics experience.* That is why I believe that people are correct in calling them the best robots in FIRST.

There is the catch in that since they're three of them their reliability seems higher. For example 1620 broke in the last match of GTR and cost their alliance the match. Of course they lost to its two triplet brothers so it didn't matter. But then again 1114 and 1530 were the same two that won all three regionals.

In nationals I think you'll see them on Einstein. The problem is that they're likely to be split up into different divisions. They won't be able to pair up like they have been. However their reputation has been secured, great teams will choose them and in turn they will be very successful.

*The beast in 2002 probably was as dominant but it wasn't as showy about it. It I feel found the trick to beating the game. It didn't as the triplets have beat everybody at their own game.

[Dan Petrovic]

I have one question.

Does 1114 always have dominating robots?
Are we going to see NiagaraFIRST triplets like this in the future?

I lied. I had two questions.

[KTorak]

Originally Posted by InfernoX14

I have one question.

Does 1114 always have dominating robots?
Are we going to see NiagaraFIRST triplets like this in the future?

I lied. I had two questions.

From what I have seen (at GLR) 1114 has really good operators. However, this isn't saying that the other triplets aren't up to that level at this point in time.

As for the question, No...because there is no "best" team in FIRST. Each team has its own strengths and weaknesses both on and off the field.

[theory6]

Originally Posted by InfernoX14

I have one question.

Does 1114 always have dominating robots?
Are we going to see NiagaraFIRST triplets like this in the future?

I lied. I had two questions.

During our rookie year in 2004, the 1114 bot was the coolest bot that I saw. The way it moves, the way it played the game and maneuvered around the field was simply amazing. It was an awesome spectacle of robust and efficient engineering. The same applies to 2005 when the Triplets were introduced.
They've won many regionals before this year so yes there are definitely up there in the "dominating" category

To answer your second question: Yes, I wouldn't expect anything less.

[Joe J.]

I have been thinking about this, how can you say a certain is the best?
Winning three regionals? Winning the Championship? Having a dominate robot?
All strong arguments but there is still the little fact that there are 1100+ teams this year, so to say that any team is the best is a huge statement that is hard to back up. The only was I would be able to say a team is truly the best is if I saw them compete against ALL the other teams (now this won't happen even at the Championship).

(The above was a generic argument and in no way is meant to insult the Triplets)

All that being said The Triplets have amazing machines and a very strong strategy. And would like to congratulate them on all their success.

[MacFlightSierra]

I dont know if this has already been mentioned, but in my opinion, what makes the triplets strong is not their shooting specifically, but the fact that they lock is position when shooting, and are virtually impossible to move because of their PID loop and high traction. I havent seen a single bot successfully play defense againts the triplets - the only was to beat them is to outscore their alliance.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Cory

Another team would probably pick the low seeded one just to keep 3 of them from getting together.

I know I would. It's a perfectly legal strategy to pick teams outside the top 8 so they can't join another lower alliance when you know they are gonna say no to you.

But will they say no? And if they say yes, would it be a bad thing?

[Starke]

Originally Posted by InfernoX14

Are we going to see NiagaraFIRST triplets like this in the future?

i have a feeling that we will see the Niagara Triplets for a very long time. They have collaborated like this for their first two years and have had success. why not stop?