Do you agree?

[MasonMM]

I think it is what you consider "good".

It's more impressive and crowd pleasing to see a robot score 80 points in a match by itself.

But as far as scoring and winning a match it can go both ways. As 418 already stated they used the "Stop the other guys from scoring at all cost" strategy and without it they wouldn't have won the regional. So in that sense is is quite as good to stop a team from scoring, especially if it means winning a regional.

[StephLee]

From my experience as coach and strategizer for our team at two regionals, it always DEPENDS. One strategy will very very rarely work for all matches in this game; you have to take each match as it falls out and go from there. Our robot can play multiple roles on an alliance: if we have a good shooter on our alliance, we can play defense and dump a bit, but if we're the top shooter on the alliance, we can shoot quite well. We're an all-around robot, basically. So for our strategy...

Say we're with two dumper/defenders. We'd be the primary offense, ask the others to play defense for us while we shoot, then go for the ramp. But what if we're with two good shooters? We'd play defense with the better pusher of the other two, and we'd block for them so they can shoot effectively.

What about the opponents? If you're against two or three shooters, you concentrate your defense on the center of the field. If you're against three dumpers, though, you sit in front of the corner goals. If your opponents can't push well, defending your scorer isn't as crucial; but if you're up against a minitank, you keep them away from that shooter at all costs.

My point is, it depends on your alliance partners' capabilities, as well as those of your opponents, as to whether it's better to stop the scoring of 80 points or to score those 80 points yourself. Due to all the headaches trying to strategize before the competitions, I've decided "Case-by-case basis" is a great motto for this game.

[George A.]

Commenting on the pick and screen method.

From what I hear (I've yet to see video) In Palmetto, 11 was able to shoot 10 for 10 through the center hoop in autonomous. Then in later matches other teams wised up and knocked into them throwing off their alignment. In the eliminations 11 had one of their partners set up a screen to block the defender so they could score...I guess that strategy worked since 11 and their allaince won the event.


Then at Philly 306 was able to shut down 84 and 365 (two of the powerhouse scorers) to win the event. So I'd go out on a limb, that if you get a robot that can score a few points in autonomous then play defense you're golden.

[Ebolagirl]

Like Newton418 said, for us stopping 118 from scoring 80 points (which they could easily do) was way better than just trying to score 80 points ourselves. Our alliance was scoring in the 60's throughout the finals, semi-finals, and finals. If our alliance had just tried to score against 118 instead of preventing them from scoring we would not have been able to top their score, especially because their alliance partner team 437 was also an awesome shooter. So I'm all for having a great defensive bot in an alliance. Actually, I think most of the alliances that were made for the finals, etc. included a defensive bot and the ones that didn't have a strong defensive bot were knocked out.

[Gdeaver]

This weekend I saw some very effective coordinated defensive attacks on good shooters. They were contained and controlled. Look what happened in Philly. The defensive attacks are only going to get better and more coordinated. For offensive super shooters to succeed I believe they are going to have to work more with their alliance setting up picks and screens. I noticed that if you constantly whack an auto aiming shooter, they are ineffective. Don't try to push them, Use the hammer drill on them. At the end of this week i believe defensive strategies are on top.

[Freddy Schurr]

I would think that scoring 80 pts would be better because you could always block a robot from scoring.

[DaveA412]

Originally Posted by Dillon Compton

Hey, guys, it wasnt a question of whether or not you could stop 80 pts from being scored, or score 83, 87, 1394... points; the question was if blocking 80 points is as good as scoring 80 points- that is to say80 points in both situations- the point differential will not be any different

I'm inclined to say that it is as good or better to block points as score them, in equal amounts- in the interest of being selected, at least, even if not selecting during alliance picking, I think that strong defensive robots are much more visible and noticeable than strong scoring robots; there are less people that can shut down (insert number of points here) than can score (insert same number) at any given event.

my view exactly well put and well said

[Dan Petrovic]

The LA regional showed that Defensive bots prosper.

968 (offensive), 1138 (defensive), 4 (defensive).
968 has the same bot as the Cheesey Poofs so they are just as good.

If you are a good enough defensive bot. Stopping 80 points is equally as rewarding as making 80 points.

I'm not sure what's more fun though. Keeping one of the big-shot teams from scoring, or actually scoring yourself. I'd say keeping the big-shot team from scoring.

[KenWittlief]

I have to take the opposite position. You cannot win unless you score at least one point.

The logical extreem of the question would be one robot that can only shoot and score, against another robot that can only block (play defense).

so if it comes down to blocking OR scoring, scoring is better. Its the only option that allows you to win the match.

[The Lucas]

Scoring 80 pts is better. There are only 80 sec (2 periods) of offense in this game. Defense can take all 120 sec (3 periods). So the offensive bot is more productive since it only takes 2/3 of the time to do its 80 pt job. The offensive bot could play defense during the defensive period and prevent other bots from scoring (bring its point total above 80 pts). Or the offensive bot could be the backbot (required) and let other bots play defense.

Also, the offensive bot might draw defenders effectively preventing them from scoring. In one qualifying match at Philly, a bot was the best offensive and defensive bot on an alliance. They spent their entire match playing good defense on a high scoring bot and probably prevented more points than they would have scored, but their alliance was unable to to score enough points without them. Their point gain is the difference between the points they prevented and the points they would have scored if they were not playing D. The other bot's point gain is the sum of points they managed to score while being defended and the points the defender would have scored.

I am not saying defense is not important because it is very important in this game. However, it is not a 1 for 1 tradeoff with offense and if you have a choice I suggest you score 80 pts.

[JamesBrown]

OK first off I am on the same team ans DaveA and Guju4life, however I have to take the opposite point of view scoring points is far more important, If you can't put points on the board you can't win. Especially in qualifying rounds when you need good scores by both teams to seat well for picking.

In the elimination rounds scoring is most important this is why you nearly always see the top shooters picked first, defense can also be used effectively abut not nearly as effectively as scoring. Many of the best alliances are 2 shooters and one defensive bot (I believe this is largely due to the serpentine draft) three defensive bots will never beat 3 offensive bots, the period system this year makes it very difficult to effectively block shooters for the whole game. Over all I would say big shooters are the best but strategy will always reign supreme, as much as I would like to take credit for having an effective defensive autonomous all these do is go across the field really fast and at high torque, the success of 90% of these modes is properly predicting what the other robot will do rather than elegant design of the bot or elegant programming. Defense is bigger this year than it was in the past, however I believe at nationals it will be less defensive and more emphasis will be on robots with good traction that can shoot and push (like the triplets 121, 233 and 1276 I'm sure there are plenty more that I haven't seen).

James

p.s. Dave there is no way half the robots we have been against can score 80 points, I would say that no more than 5 of them could.

[DaveA412]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

OK first off I am on the same team ans DaveA and Guju4life, however I have to take the opposite point of view scoring points is far more important, If you can't put points on the board you can't win. Especially in qualifying rounds when you need good scores by both teams to seat well for picking.

In the elimination rounds scoring is most important this is why you nearly always see the top shooters picked first, defense can also be used effectively abut not nearly as effectively as scoring. Many of the best alliances are 2 shooters and one defensive bot (I believe this is largely due to the serpentine draft) three defensive bots will never beat 3 offensive bots, the period system this year makes it very difficult to effectively block shooters for the whole game. Over all I would say big shooters are the best but strategy will always reign supreme, as much as I would like to take credit for having an effective defensive autonomous all these do is go across the field really fast and at high torque, the success of 90% of these modes is properly predicting what the other robot will do rather than elegant design of the bot or elegant programming. Defense is bigger this year than it was in the past, however I believe at nationals it will be less defensive and more emphasis will be on robots with good traction that can shoot and push (like the triplets 121, 233 and 1276 I'm sure there are plenty more that I haven't seen).

James

p.s. Dave there is no way half the robots we have been against can score 80 points, I would say that no more than 5 of them could.

James i was overexaggerating but i totally agree with u and 3 good offense is the elite alliance but because of the picking its hard to comby 3 good shooters they are usually all picked up and im pretty certain more then 5 bots could score more then 80 points id say 6 but at atlanta i think their might be more then 6 maybe 7 or so idk

[Sharkbyte]

Why an effective autonomus is good:

at milwaukee, we were against Wildstang and another really good shooter. One time the other alliance got so many in the center goal during autonomus that the can was full, and there were still balls jammed up the tube.

Needles to say we lost, even after we lost to wildstang in Chicago too

P.S. I now have nightmares about tie dye

[robochick1319]

Stopping a robot from scoring 80 pts. is an excellent game strategy, if you have someone on your alliance who can score. We did a lot of blocking this year and honestly it was the deciding factor in a lot of matches.

Even if your losing and you don't have a good shooter, blocking is good because it creates a reputation for yourself. Even if you lose 80-0 people can say "Wow, look at ______, they really tried and they'll never give up" which can lead to a good rep and that can do wonders for you.

[DaveA412]

Originally Posted by Tim Delles

The real question is can you score 80 points. Thier aren't many teams that can score 80 points.

at the two regionals ive been too half the teams atleast could score 80 points easily and effectively one team even scored 130 some odd points(233) ive definitely seen a lot of teams score 80 points without breaking a sweat but idk a lot fo veyr good teams were at my regionals not to say there wasnt at yours but it was jaw dropping with teams like 121 233 40 1276(i think kaizen blitz if i got the number wrong maybe it was 1257 idk)but once these teams got it it was amazing team 126 even shoots 2 balls at once