Two Story Pit Area?

[Mr. Freeman]

Originally Posted by SamS0Fa33O

Why not just find a place at a regional where thier is a 2 story bulding? Then just have spots reserved for teams on both stories.... seems like that is a safe plan!

The only problem with that is that you'll have about 5 teams all trying to use the freight elevator at the same time because they're all late for a match.

I think the 4 story pit is a really good idea (safety concerns, logistics, rules, feasibility, and cost aside of course). Anyone hear of the "elevator" they're attempting to make to the moon? Just use one of those. 5000 story pit area!

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

Hey, on the note of OSHA:

While I was buying some parts for a robot I'm building for fun, I ran across the electrical specs for that red main battery connector FIRST uses. Did you know its only rated for 50 amps?!

That means that there is a 120 amp breaker behind a 50 amp connector...

anyone else thinking this is stupid and is a safety/fire hazard?

This has been noted before. The basis for using a connector that is seemingly underrated is that, in 2 minutes, 120 amps could not compromise the connector. The key here is the time factor. If matches where significantly longer, then a lot of rules surrounding electrical safety might have to change.

In fact, if you looked at the average amount of current pulled over the whole two minutes, I bet it would be under 50 amps.

The connector is capable of carrying much higher currents over a 2 minute time span then it's rating would otherwise suggest. There is no danger from a properly cared for connector. You can use higher rated connectors if you wish, assuming rules don't change, as long as inspectors are satisfied that they meet all the requirements that the kit Anderson meets.

-Andy A.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Andy A.

You can use higher rated connectors if you wish, assuming rules don't change, as long as inspectors are satisfied that they meet all the requirements that the kit Anderson meets.

Right now, the rules don't actually allow for a more robust solution, even if you wanted one. See <R57>, which states that "[t]he Battery must use the Anderson Connector", meaning the red SB50.

As for the 2-story pit area, I'm wondering whether a team would actually go to the trouble of getting a structural engineer's stamp on their pit area blueprints, and then having it verified for proper construction once it was assembled. For liability reasons, I can't see FIRST ever allowing anything less than that, even notwithstanding the item in the manual which clearly prohibits these sorts of things.

[Kyle Love]

We thought about making a second story lounge and an area for the pit crew to take a load off of their feet. But, the sheer logistics of easily being able to set it up are mind boggling and well, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, its not legal. But hey, we all can dream of a lounge area....

[Sean Schuff]

Originally Posted by Kyle Love

We thought about making a second story lounge and an area for the pit crew to take a load off of their feet. But, the sheer logistics of easily being able to set it up are mind boggling and well, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, its not legal. But hey, we all can dream of a lounge area....

How about at IRI where the FIRST rules are a little more, well, flexible!

[sanddrag]

Good idea, but I'm quickly coming to realize the cost to build such a structure would be in the thousands.

But I was thinking something. The footprint space it takes for a person to stand is not even as large as for an FRC robot. So it could be a people An 8 foot stroke pneumatic cylinder. It would be perfect. Like a 4 inch bore clylinder running at 120 psi.

[dubious elise]

Aha, I completely misread your initial post, David!

I thought that you were referring to a massive, pit-area-wide structure that would have multiple floors to accomodate extra teams and work/practice/shop spaces (I think I mentally deleted the 10x10 blurb). This, in and of itself, would be very cool and might allow venues with relatively cramped pit spaces to open up a bit and allow the full 10x10 footprint dimensions, if not more. Obviously, the overall height of the arena and the lighting of each space would be issues to tango with.

As for individual pits, I'd be worried about either having kids fall out of the upper levels or, if you have workspace on the upper level(s), having materials/sparks/nuts and bolts either fall through the floor or hit passers-by. We might have to start telling kids to keep their saftey glasses over their eyes on the field and on their foreheads in the pits.

[Rick TYler]

These sorts of things are common in the trade show world, although not usually in sizes that small. I should warn you, though, that the last time I designed a trade show exhibit our 20x20 booth (only one story) cost more than $50,000, and we rented most of it.

[UlTiMaTeP]

I had always dreamed of a 2 story pit, I believe a team did it this year out of painters scaffolding.

[Kyle Love]

Originally Posted by Sean Schuff

How about at IRI where the FIRST rules are a little more, well, flexible!

but remember, the pits are almost half the size, wait a minute.....even more of a challenge!

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Sean Schuff

How about at IRI where the FIRST rules are a little more, well, flexible!

Let me think about it for one second.
OK, I am done thinking about it.

How about "NO!".

We are flexible, but not that flexible.

[Cyberguy34000]

Hmmm. Come to think of it, one of the main reasons people are thinking a two story pit would be cool is because of the comfy space.

So perhaps FIRST could just put this into their site agenda and avoid the saftey hazard of teams trying?

Think the Autodesk Couch area at nats, but at every regional, and bigger there's just enough room if they move some of the arena chairs around...

I mean regionals are getting to the size where getting comfy seats should become a priority. If they put said comfy sofa area in the stands behind the pits, they'd avoid spectator squaters, meaning a cool hangout place to stratigize and stuff. But where would they get the couches? I can just see the agenda now, "be sure that your team brings a sofa to relax with".

But seriously, scouts and such work their butts off, is a nice place to relax for a few minutes too much to ask?

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by Kyle Love

We thought about making a second story lounge and an area for the pit crew to take a load off of their feet. But, the sheer logistics of easily being able to set it up are mind boggling and well, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, its not legal. But hey, we all can dream of a lounge area....

you have time to lounge?!

[pez1959]

I think if a team were to have this multi story pit it would cause one big problem. The problem simply being that if there was a multi level pit, no work would get done in my one table toolbox pit. We'd all be over there trying to get past the bouncer into yer lounge, which would then result in us taking a crate into our first match :-p

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Kyle Love

We thought about making a second story lounge and an area for the pit crew to take a load off of their feet. But, the sheer logistics of easily being able to set it up are mind boggling and well, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, its not legal. But hey, we all can dream of a lounge area....

You can dream about this, but won't ever do it. Kyle failed to mention the part when his team mentors said "no way".

A 2-story pit at a FIRST event is a safety hazard. It will cause more negative attention from facility administrators, insurance lawyers and safety personnel not familiar with FIRST. We don't need more of these people nosing around the pits.

This is NOT a good idea. Please, people, don't try to develop 2 story pits or push FIRST to allow them. The attention we will get won't be good.

Andy B.