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Unread 30-04-2013, 16:44
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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TL;DR: Right now I am the "Senior Technical Mentor/Coach" for 2470, I mentor 3081 and have been asked to take the coach position, I coach FTC #5943, I am president and founder of GOFIRST at Dunwoody, I am currently have an internship at General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (2470's primary sponsor) and I am attending college for 19 credits per semester. Let's just say I am glad FIRST is my passion and social life.
Kudos to you, man. That's a lot on your plate and it sounds like you're handling it pretty well.

From an alternate perspective, I've been at 16 or 17 credits for the past two years of college, and I can't imagine myself having the time to mentor a team as well. Granted, I've chosen to take part in other activities within the school that also take up significant amounts of time, but they don't cause nearly as much concentrated stress as build season. I could have chosen to mentor teams here, and I'm sure I could have adapted to the challenge and workload, but I don't think it would have been the best choice for me. For now, I'm content with volunteering when I'm able to (which is not nearly as much as I would like) so that I can stay involved with FIRST, but still pursue other things.

So, your mileage may vary. You're not obligated to mentor as a college student: there are other ways to stay involved, if you want to. If you want to, great! But there's no pressure.
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Unread 30-04-2013, 21:03
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

I must say it was much easier for me since I am mentoring the team that I was on all 4 years in high school (starting from its rookie year) and living at home. Despite all this, I STILL find my grades needing a little work and find myself having a hard time balancing my commitments to other organizations. I am in the marching band for WVU, and still actively involved in scouting. However, despite everything, I still have to find time for FIRST. It's extremely difficult, but it still happens.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that if you have the passion and drive to mentor a team, it is possible. But don't think it's going to be a piece of cake. Like I said, I'm probably in one of the easier mentoring situations for a college student and I still have trouble keeping up.
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Unread 04-08-2014, 22:17
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.
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Unread 05-08-2014, 11:07
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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Originally Posted by Joe Matt View Post
Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.
I have to argue that a blanket statement like this is unwise. Everyone's situation is different. I graduated from High School in 2013 and after a year of classes at Kettering University I know I made the right choice to mentor this past season. One of the reasons I chose a B-section schedule (school in April-June and October-December and work in January-March and July-September) was so that I would be able to mentor my team during my work term. It was tiring, going from work to robotics then straight to sleep when I got home, but it was worth it. My team was very influential to me during high school and I want to make sure as many kids as possible get as much out of it as I did.
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Unread 05-08-2014, 22:44
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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I have to argue that a blanket statement like this is unwise. Everyone's situation is different. I graduated from High School in 2013 and after a year of classes at Kettering University I know I made the right choice to mentor this past season. One of the reasons I chose a B-section schedule (school in April-June and October-December and work in January-March and July-September) was so that I would be able to mentor my team during my work term. It was tiring, going from work to robotics then straight to sleep when I got home, but it was worth it. My team was very influential to me during high school and I want to make sure as many kids as possible get as much out of it as I did.
Of course it's a blanket statement! I truly believe the experiences and mistakes made going out away from FIRST for a few years will reap benefits for the team and yourself.

Also, sorry I can't stop but thinking of songs from Book of Mormon when seeing your user name.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 14:34
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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Of course it's a blanket statement! I truly believe the experiences and mistakes made going out away from FIRST for a few years will reap benefits for the team and yourself.
Stayed out of mentoring FRC for a while now. Honestly could not be happier with my decision. It's amazing how much you realize you miss out on while being a dedicated mentor during build season.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 15:57
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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Stayed out of mentoring FRC for a while now. Honestly could not be happier with my decision. It's amazing how much you realize you miss out on while being a dedicated mentor during build season.
I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 16:31
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.
It's easy to say you would just spend "lots of time on Netflix" if you didn't mentor a team, but you're totally missing his point. College is one of the best times in your life to try new things, meet new people, and challenge yourself in different ways. If you're putting aside all that college has to offer to try and mentor a team in college, you're missing out on these opportunities. Or worse, you try and juggle robotics + regular extracurricular activities and your grades suffer as a result.

I agree with Joe Matt, despite being a college mentor my freshman year. If I had to give general advice to students in FRC, knowing little about their situation, I would suggest a year off of full time mentoring. Mentors are different than students, and six months into college isn't a ton of time to learn, grow, and gain the life experience an adult mentor has.

All of that said, I know some people that mentor in college who can handle the responsibility, and maintain an active presence in campus extracurricular, AND get pretty good grades. These people are the exception to the rule and certainly don't need my advice. The majority of students, even the students who could do it in high school!!!, are going to struggle with this. So I'm not trying to say you specifically shouldn't mentor, but that I agree with the general advice.

I know how it is. Giving up FRC is extremely hard because frankly, at that time in your life there's not a lot else going on that feels so meaningful. For many FRC becomes part of their identity. But before you can be a really effective mentor, you have to grow up. It's hard to say I regret all of the choices that put me where I am today, but if I could do it again, I would have stuck to the sidelines and helped in a much smaller way for my first years. I wasn't ready.
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Unread 07-08-2014, 08:40
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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It's easy to say you would just spend "lots of time on Netflix" if you didn't mentor a team, but you're totally missing his point. College is one of the best times in your life to try new things, meet new people, and challenge yourself in different ways. If you're putting aside all that college has to offer to try and mentor a team in college, you're missing out on these opportunities. Or worse, you try and juggle robotics + regular extracurricular activities and your grades suffer as a result.
I guess I didn't really make it clear that my situation is not quite the typical college schedule. At Kettering, we rotate every three months between school and work. With my schedule, I have school from October-December, work from January-March, school April-June, and work July-September. This means that during the entire build season and the first few weeks of competition season, I'm living at home and working full time at a co-op job. During build season I go to work, go right from work to robotics, then go home. Sure, I get less sleep then I'd like, but it doesn't affect my work. When the work term ends and I go back to school, I'm not involved in the team at all for those three months, just going to competitions on the weekends to watch. I agree wholeheartedly that mentoring while going to college would be extremely taxing, and not recommended. However, my situation is different. This is why I said that everyone's situation is different and blanket statements like "nobody should mentor during their first year of college" don't apply to everyone.

Also, a ton of people at Kettering were on FIRST teams and many still mentor, so we enjoy going to competitions and watching webcasts together.
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Unread 07-08-2014, 09:37
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

Hello all - This is a topic of particular interest to me because my career has been built around mentorship because of my experiences as a FRC student and later a mentor. I'm extremely proud of all my personal accomplishments and those of the teams I've mentored. There's nothing I would go back and change.

I think the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. If you are doing something that makes you happy and are able to maintain a healthy life then keep doing it. You're the best gauge of your own abilities and energy, so don't ignore yourself.

It also doesn't hurt to listen to feedback from others. If subtle hints of business, health, or well-being related to what your doing become persistent from co-mentors, family, and friends you may want to listen.

This is a tough topic because FIRST mentors are of the most passionate people who give back. Just do what you think is right.

Nate
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Unread 06-08-2014, 16:34
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.
Your signature says you were a mentor for one year, so good job on getting past your first year.

College gets harder, and college is really really important. You aren't paying a lot of money to play FIRST. You are paying a lot of money to get the most out of your classes.

I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first.

And honestly, college kids don't always make the best mentors. We shouldn't make good mentors. We should be too devoted to school to give up that much time a week to be a full-time mentor. For the first half of college, we don't even know that much and are just super-high-school-seniors when it comes to robotics knowledge. We can't give that extra incite that defines a mentor from an older student.

I'm sure you, and others, are blowing off my comment because "I am not you and I will do it better". Like others said, if you can, great. But don't lie to yourself, and don't ruin your college experience because of it.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 17:05
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first.
I'm a mentor in name only and have been for the last four years. I'm still considered an official part of the team, and I support the team at competitions, but right now, my role has actually served more as a minion to one of our mentors than as an actual mentor to students. He runs ideas by me, and I'll take care of some of the more behind-the-scenes or off-season related activities.

I try to make a point to make it to Kickoff (where I help lead brainstorming afterwards), at least one meeting where I remind everyone about scholarships and it's where we get the group input for Woodie Flowers, and then competitions. For awards and such, I'm in email/text communication with the students that are in charge of that. If I make it to another meeting, that's great. If not, I wasn't expected anyways.


Most of us who tell you not to mentor in college truly have your best interests at heart. And we're not telling you to not be involved with FIRST while you're in college. But it really does need to take a back seat to what you're studying.


And for Kettering B-section students especially: I know how much free time you have on work term. Yes, you're not in class and can mentor more freely than you can on school term. But you could also use this time to pick up a hobby or learn something you didn't have time to do over school term. Take advantage of student discounts. (For instance, there's swing dancing groups in Ann Arbor that offer discounts to students. Go take a lesson. Or five.) Meet other people. Use this time to become a "more well rounded person". You need to come before robotics.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 17:12
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

It's also important to note that staying involved with FIRST does not mean you have to mentor a team. Most areas are looking for volunteers, and there are a number of ways to help teams in your area without beong a full time mentor-- for example, most teams are always looking for people to run their Chairman's presentations by.

Volunteering or generally experiencing FIRST outside of the context of a team are valuable-- not just from a "bringing something to the team," but also for gaining a broader perspective and expanding your personal network.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 17:46
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

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Originally Posted by Joseph Smith View Post
I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.
That's great for you. (I'm not being sarcastic). It becomes pretty easy to be content with things you're comfortable with, and not everyone regrets missing out on more than just a few higher grades, sleep, and the occasional episode of House of Cards. However, most college mentors I've met (including myself) sort of regretted missing out on important relationships and occasions because they were so heavily invested in FRC. You would miss out on teaching that group of students who will maybe be on the team for 4 years, but new students will still be there for you to inspire and teach when you're done with college. FRC will always be there, but college doesn't always last too long. I'm not totally sure if me preaching that you can always experience those "greatest experiences" later on in FRC hits home.

Just remember how much more there is to college than academic life, sleep, and heck, even Netflix . Every semester will pass by you quickly. I learned pretty quickly that, after a season of mentoring, you start regretting missing events and people because you didn't make time for them. As Chris said, there's people who are truly exceptional and can be incredibly well-rounded. They can have a meaningful college experience outside of the classroom, as well as outside of mentoring. I guess my point doesn't just pertain to students who want to mentor in college; this rings true for any college student. It's easy to mentor because it's an environment you're comfortable with and are happy with. You know you'll love it because you're passionate about it. Meeting a different variety of people and being involved in so much more than FIRST can be just as, if not more, meaningful to you if you give things a try. Being immersed in FIRST definitely becomes a part of who you are, but leave yourself space and time to explore new things you can identify yourself with.

As a legend once said:
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Last edited by Akash Rastogi : 06-08-2014 at 17:55.
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

These considerations should also take into account team expectations. For example, in 2011 as a student, I put in 30+ hours a week. As a college mentor, there's no way I would've been able to do that. My team's typical mentor has a time input closer to 15 hours a week, which is comparable to a single additional class (albeit a difficult one). For me, that was very doable.

You can try to schedule extracurriculars around FRC mentoring. Many of these activities have seasons in similar ways to FRC. Look for design competitions with the main competition in the fall or early winter, or simply do more in the fall while stepping back in the winter. It should be possible to accomplish (I'm attempting this approach in the coming school year).

For anyone, being a responsible college student and dedicated FRC mentor will require thought, organization, and expectation management, but I really think it's achievable for most committed FRC alumni.
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