[Official 2007 Game Design] Game Elements and Subtasks

[dlavery]

This thread is a spin-off of this discussion, and has been started to focus on game elements and subtasks. This is a discussion of ideas for unique game elements and subtasks. If you don't have a fully developed game, but have a great idea about a piece of a game or an idea about something that has never been done before, then this is the place to talk about it. As examples from the past, someone could use this thread to post a suggestion to use funny pyramid-like PVC structures as an element, or that stacking stuff should be included as a challenging subtask, or that throwing objects would make for a great engineering challenge. Someone else may have a very creative idea for the role of the human player (while some may propose no human player at all). Others can use those ideas as a creativity springboard to develop a game concept.

-dave

[Billfred]

It might have similar themes to Aim High in some regards, but I'd love to see a game that involved processing the game piece in some form.

The example that comes to mind would be to have stations where teams received (small) balls of five different colors. Four of these stations would only have one color come out, while the fifth would have a mixture of colors in addition to its color. (Why? Teams would have to sort the balls to get a proper supply of the fifth color.) Human Players would put buckets into position Triple Play style with some specification on it, say, three green balls, two blue, and one red. The robot would have to dispense exactly that many of those balls, then place the bucket in a scoring position.

Scoring would be based upon the difficulty of the spec (one-color buckets are easier than three-color), with some multiplier for the fifth color since it requires teams to sort the balls (using the CMUcam, presumably). For more fun, offer two scoring positions: one that is safe, and one that offers a bonus but can be disrupted by the opposition. You could get more points in the risky zone, but a well-equipped opponent could empty your bucket or taint it with extra balls.

[evanisthat!]

How about a combination of the best of the previous games, a big ramp in the middle of the field like stack attack. Big goals that robots shoot balls into, but only from on top of the ramp, and the goals can be stacked on like in 2004 with the 2X ball. You could cover the other alliance's goal so they couldn't score unless they freed the ball. This would cause a ton of action on the ramp, and a good amount of strategy and manipulator innovation.

OR

A big see-saw in the middle, that is also a ramp, and is perpendicular to the long side of the field. It would have 2 hanging goals, one on each end, and the object would be to fill the goals with game pieces to get the ramp to tilt in your favor. Other robots could try and balance it by getting on the other side of the ramp, and you could shoot or dumb the game pieces (probably heavy balls) from anywhere on the field into your goal. Tons of strategy, innovation, and "king of the hill" style fights. There would also be a limited number of game pieces to be scored, thus once the goals are full, the game dynamic changes entirely.
Who knows, lets do it all underwater too!

108

[Joel J]

What about a tesseract? I'm just saying it, because it sounds cool.. I can't actually think of how it would be used as a game piece.. maybe some sort of demented goal?



FIRST in "4D," sounds good.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

The FRC games that have appealed most to me have been those that offered teams a wide variety of challenges (multiple tasks: hanging, capping, scoring balls).

These games encouraged teams to think creatively about strategy. As a result they produced a wide variety of diverse designs with some robots focusing on particular tasks while others attempted to do everything.

I think it would be really cool to have multiple game pieces. Like say buckets and tennis balls. Perhaps teams would receive extra points for putting the game pieces together: filling the buckets with tennis balls and pushing them back to base.

[sanddrag]

We still are lacking the "big finish" of 2003 and 2004. We need something big smack in the center of the field that every team "fights" for at the end of the match.

Also, I'd like to see a greater than 45 degree incline somewhere.

Last, I think it'd be neat if part of the field could be powered by a robot. Say there's a platform a robot drives onto. It has a rope going from it up over a pulley and back down. A partner robot can grab ahold of this rope and start pulling raising the platform. Kind of like an elevator in a sense.

[Jherbie53]

I would like too see a pressure pad or sensor on the field for the robots. An example would be, that the pad or sensor would light up a light, open a gate to another part of the field , or move a game piece onto the field for your team during the game. This would make for a good game element that requires teamwork.

The Human player needs to be involved like it has been the past couple of years. Stack Attack was not a good human player game, because they only had ten seconds to place the bins on the field and their effort could be wiped out in the first 5 seconds of autonomous. Triple Play and Aim High are good human player games.

I would like too see the return of a open "bonus" zone. Like the ramp in 2003 or the bar in 2004. The ramps at the other ends of the field make it easier for the teams to go to their own ramps, most of the time, and made some pretty exciting finishes to matches.

[Billfred]

Here's another idea. It seems that there are about fifteen threads that've floated around Delphi about how the game pieces have been triangles and circles and squares. How about just blowing all of 'em out of the water once and for all with three different game pieces on the field, one of each form (a four-sided pyramid, a cylinder, a cube) that must be assembled using reasonably strong magnets inside each piece. You then get the awesomeness of stacking without the ridiculous ease of knocking over.

[santosh]

I would also like to see a large structure in the middle of the fiel. My biggst thing that I would like to see a lot of diferent tasks like in 2004. I understand the arguement that it can make things difficult for rookies,. But there must be some way to integrate a lot of different tasks into a game that isn't overwhelming for a rookie teams.
I would like something lik hav had in the past where you either have to climb on something or lift yourself up to get a large bonus.

[Dan Petrovic]

I'd like to see stair climbing. I don't mean just one step.

I mean a whole series. That'd be neat to see.

[Rick TYler]

My only two years in FIRST have both featured fields with only limited 3D features. I want to see both a really tall scoring element (eight feet plus) and elevated structures that need to be driven over, around, or under.

The scoring things are all in the other Alliance's end (or at least the key component that allows bonus points -- like making 3-across patterns in '05), and there are three ways to get there: a 5-degree ramp leads to a bridge that turns left and goes across the arena to a right-hand turn down a 5-degree ramp on the other side. At both extreme sides of the arena is a 30-degree ramp that goes up to a 40-inch square platform and then down again on the other side. Under the bridge formed by the 10-degree ramp bridge is the "underpass" to the other side that is only 24 inches high.

Simple bots can climb the shallow ramp, turn across the bridge, and then go down the other side. It's not hard, but it is slow. Better bots can take advantage of the 30-degree ramps to go over, but there are only two of them, they are all they way on the outside edges of the field, and they are steep. Really creative bots can zip straight through under the wide bridge in the center. This gives a real challenge to teams that want one, but doesn't make the game impossible for BLTs.

We could also add some complexity by including scoring elements with a complex, hard-to-hold shape (see "tetras") and another simple shape (like a squishy ball). The complex shape could be worth more points, but be more complex. Another interesting spin on game elements would be to introduce something genuinely heavy, but not particulary hard to grasp. We have some barbells (little one-hand units) covered with a non-skid rubber-like material that might be just the ticket. I know for sure that they come in 5- and 10-pound weights. What would a robot look like that could lift and carry several 10-pound barbells under a 24-inch bridge, but still be able to lift them onto an 8-foot-high scoring cage? The weights have obvious safety issues, but it would put a premium on stronger mechanisms than we had in '06.

Now, as for the actual game, I don't have any idea except that it should involve either helicopters, boats, or bobsleds...

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

Another interesting spin on game elements would be to introduce something genuinely heavy, but not particulary hard to grasp. We have some barbells (little one-hand units) covered with a non-skid rubber-like material that might be just the ticket. I know for sure that they come in 5- and 10-pound weights. What would a robot look like that could lift and carry several 10-pound barbells under a 24-inch bridge, but still be able to lift them onto an 8-foot-high scoring cage?

Medicine balls would be perfect.

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Another cool game element would be a marry-go-round, or spinning platform.


(imagine this without handle bars)

Robots would have to cross this powered hazard to score or to reach the other side of the field. This would be particularly spectacular if next year's game involved balls. Imagine the chaos of balls being spun off of the field!

[Tetraman]

Pool Noodles
I've seen footballs as a different ball design
A HEAVY ball...like a bowling ball.
Boxes that arn't bins.
Large Puzzle Peices

And something I would like to score with: Small robots you build that eject from your "mother-bot"

[Jherbie53]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Another cool game element would be a marry-go-round, or spinning platform.


(imagine this without handle bars)

Robots would have to cross this powered hazard to score or to reach the other side of the field. This would be particularly spectacular if next year's game involved balls. Imagine the chaos of balls being spun off of the field!

I would also like to see something like a marry-go-round on the field. It could be powered and could not, the only problem with it being powered is, how do you get power to it? It either has to be large enough where there is no room on the sides or needs some walls or "speed bumps" covering the power cables. You could also put some gold rings around the marry-go-round to grab, bonus points for grabbing the rings, or a free ride.

I think the game needs a movable field element, like movable goals in First Frenzy or a movable platform. In the Autonomous thread like this one, someone mentioned a "house robot" that would just keep moving around the field and sometimes play defense. This can also be done with a part of the field. Have something that moves, like two gates that open for a set number of seconds at different times in the match.

[Peter Matteson]

I would love to see goals that drive themselves around the field using a kop tranny and cim. Maybe they could line follow a pattern to make scoring more challenging.