How would I interface a flash drive to the RC?

[JBotAlan]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

You can get a single-channel data logger for under $25, and a NI 6009 goes for about $250.

Don

Hmm. I will present this to our leader and see what he thinks. A little begging from the GM higher-ups, and we just might get the 6009. Otherwise, I'll buy myself a single-channel logger, because that's better than nothing.

JBot

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

Hmm. I will present this to our leader and see what he thinks. A little begging from the GM higher-ups, and we just might get the 6009.

If you do decide to purchase a USB-6009 DAQ device on your own, let me know first - our Academic Kit for the USB-6009 is $269 with a copy of LabVIEW Student Edition, which obviously you don't need. It might be possible to get you a discounted "FIRST" price on the USB-6009 since all you need is the hardware (and driver CDs), I'll have to check with Academic Marketing to see what I can dig up for you. Since I'm in R&D and not in Academic Marketing, I don't know what's possible - but those guys up there have always been super generous in the past, so maybe there's a chance! Just send an "official" question to the "frc [at] ni.com" e-mail address and ask how much a USB-6009 would cost a "FIRST" team and that'll put the team to work finding out for you; obviously we would LOVE to get these devices into the hands of as many people as possible, and you might be able to use that to your advantage!

And, of course, if you have any questions about how to do any DAQ with LabVIEW just fire off a question in our LabVIEW forum and we'd be happy to oblige!

-Danny

[chris31]

They look nice! All white, compact and sleek. If NI decided to make one that supported a CompactFlash or some other type or portable media card I think I would have to buy one. Im on the fence as to buy one when I need a computer there since we dont always have a computer around when working (or its busy being used) but being able to log lots of info to a card and then read it later would be so nice. I guess if it really wanted to I could build something that read the info you guys send from the USB port to the computer but thats probably proprietary and would take awhile to reverse engineer.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

Not entirely true; the gyros were powered off the 5v out, and so was our camera.

Last year's yaw rate gyro, accelerometer, and camera were not custom circuits. They were all in the Kit of Parts.

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

It doesn't say that you must draw the power from the circuit breaker.

I think it does.

...In addition to the required branch power circuit breaker, smaller value fuses may be incorporated in the custom circuits for additional protection...

[JBotAlan]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Last year's yaw rate gyro, accelerometer, and camera were not custom circuits. They were all in the Kit of Parts.

That part that you quoted is not specific; it refers to another rule, <R56>:

<R56> All 12v electric power used on the robot must be obtained from the load terminals of the Circuit Breaker
distribution panels. Each branch circuit must be protected using the appropriate value circuit breaker as
specified in Section 5.3.9.1 “Circuit Breaker/Fusing Rules.”

I interpret that to mean "if you are using 12v, you need to use a fuse". Why would they provide us with 5v out of the RC if we can't use it? Does that mean if I make a custom circuit that needs 5v, I have to connect it to 12v and put a 5v regulator in there? The 5v coming from the RC is already regulated and current-limited, so why not use it?

Dan, I sent an email last night and was informed this morning that they extended the pilot program to our team. Thanks for the tip!

JBot

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

That part that you quoted is not specific; it refers to another rule, <R56>:

Aside from the rule itself, I don't see references to <R56> anywhere in the 2006 robot manual. It certainly isn't mentioned in the section on custom circuits.

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

I interpret that to mean "if you are using 12v, you need to use a fuse".

One of us is very confused, and I don't think it's me. Fuses are mentioned in <R57>, not <R56>, and are designated there as permitted, not as mandatory. The circuit breaker is mandatory in any case.

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

Why would they provide us with 5v out of the RC if we can't use it?

The 5v from the RC is for sensors. Rule <R91> about powering custom circuits is explicit. I also repeat the mention from <R57> here in its full context.

Originally Posted by <R57>

The use of additional electronics is intended to allow teams to construct custom circuits for their robots. The custom circuits may be used to indirectly affect the robot outputs by providing enhanced sensor feedback to the Robot Controller to allow it to more effectively decide how to control the robot. In addition to the required branch power circuit breaker, smaller value fuses may be incorporated in the custom circuits for additional protection. All outputs from the custom circuits must be connected to the analog inputs, digital I/O, TTL Serial Port, or Program Port on the Robot Controller.

Originally Posted by <R91>

You must protect the power feed to Custom Circuits and Additional Electronics with a 20A Circuit Breaker.

[JBotAlan]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

One of us is very confused, and I don't think it's me. Fuses are mentioned in <R57>, not <R56>, and are designated there as permitted, not as mandatory. The circuit breaker is mandatory in any case.

Yes, I messed up; I meant to say circuit breaker, not fuse.

I'm probably going to end up looking in the Q&A for this...

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, because I very well might be wrong.

JBot

[Mike Hendricks]

Originally Posted by dcbrown

and the MMC/SD daughter board that can be used with the above board.

AC164122 - PICtail Daughter Board for SD & MMC Cards

Not sure if this is still relevant, but our programming mentor showed up at one of our preseason meetings with a little SD card reader similar to the one linked above. I don't remember all the details, but I believe it needed 6 Digital I/Os on the controller and you could read text files off it (his idea was to use it to hold a few pages of stuff that constantly changes like auton programs) so you don't have to recompile and reload your code so much (during programming sessons, we have students who only hold the 50ft program cable, and on command will plug it in and "PROG" the RC)

I'm not sure if he's done any further testing with it, but if you're interested (or anyone else for that matter) I can talk to him about it. I believe the cost of the board was no more than $50

[Astronouth7303]

Originally Posted by PhatMike

Not sure if this is still relevant, but our programming mentor showed up at one of our preseason meetings with a little SD card reader similar to the one linked above. I don't remember all the details, but I believe it needed 6 Digital I/Os on the controller and you could read text files off it (his idea was to use it to hold a few pages of stuff that constantly changes like auton programs) so you don't have to recompile and reload your code so much

Good luck with that. Even on the PC, string parsing is hard. On the PIC, I doubt you'll have the power or memory to handle it. What might be more reasonable would be to store autonomous in EEPROM and use a custom loader to change it. (Similar idea to Kevin's navigation code.)

Of course, you should feel free to prove me wrong.

[Mike Hendricks]

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

Good luck with that. Even on the PC, string parsing is hard. On the PIC, I doubt you'll have the power or memory to handle it. What might be more reasonable would be to store autonomous in EEPROM and use a custom loader to change it. (Similar idea to Kevin's navigation code.)

Of course, you should feel free to prove me wrong.

When he showed it to me, I questioned the RC being able to interface with it, and he proceeded to explain how it would work - which went way over my head, because I couldn't program myself out of a ditch if my life depended on it (well, at least in C .. if the RC's still ran PBASIC, I would be fine ).

Like I said, I have yet to see it work. If it does, I'll post it.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

Good luck with that. Even on the PC, string parsing is hard. On the PIC, I doubt you'll have the power or memory to handle it.

Just because they're strings doesn't mean that you have to develop some sort of natural language parsing... very simple strings where each character represents some parameter or command would be pretty easy (read: near trivial) to handle. String, for loop, switch statement, done. In any case, I don't know anything about this SD card reader (except that I'd love to have one), but from a software perspective the idea is definitely tractable.

[jsprigg]

Yuo could use something like this. $50 Canadian.

It's a serial (RS232) data logger, that has FAT16/FAT32 capability. Essentially, you could generate a standard readable text file on the unit, take out the SD card and read it in a PC/Mac.

Gumstix is another idea (which someone mentioned earlier), but it will be more costly and probably more difficult to implement. I've got one (with a few of the modules :-))... and it's fun to play around with - but will probably be frustrating to those not familiar with linux.

Good luck!

- Jeff

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by jsprigg

Yuo could use something like this. $50 Canadian.

It's a serial (RS232) data logger, that has FAT16/FAT32 capability. Essentially, you could generate a standard readable text file on the unit, take out the SD card and read it in a PC/Mac.

Gumstix is another idea (which someone mentioned earlier), but it will be more costly and probably more difficult to implement. I've got one (with a few of the modules :-))... and it's fun to play around with - but will probably be frustrating to those not familiar with linux.

Good luck!

- Jeff

Check out this Link:http://www.crosstheroadelectronics.c...cken%20AID.htm The product is in not in production yet. We will be using it on our bot this year. We will release it for next season. A picture will be available soon. You can use usb flash drives and SD. The final version will have USB device support allowing you to connect to your pc via USB cable. The device communicates with the RC via the program port. It allows the user to read and write to/from the media using an LCD interface or the R/C or a PC. No linux necessary. You simply send ASCII commands to create, read and write files and directories. It is great for changing auton on the fly, or setting pid gains without reflashing the R/C. It will sell for $199.99 about the same price as a Gumstick. No programming is required. It comes with updatable firmware that can be downloaded from our websight onto a USB or SD media device.