G23 vs. G48

[geeknerd99]

G23 says that the only way to enter game pieces onto the field is through the chute. Meanwhile, G48 goes into detail about how human players can throw game pieces over the alliance station wall onto the field, and even the rack.

Which one is correct?

[P.J. Baker]

G23 appears to address only the chute, saying that the chute is a one-way device (HP to robot) and can not be used to pass from robot to HP. G48 is a global rule which covers all of the ways the tubes may enter.

[FourPenguins]

Originally Posted by P.J. Baker

G23 appears to address only the chute, saying that the chute is a one-way device (HP to robot) and can not be used to pass from robot to HP. G48 is a global rule which covers all of the ways the tubes may enter.

I agree. However, as worded, there is no proof that g48 supercedes the other interpretation of g23. I'd like to hear from someone in FIRST on this rule, just to confirm this.

[Tetraman]

The only time a human player and robot can touch a ringer at the same time is through the chute.

[DCA Fan]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

The only time a human player and robot can touch a ringer at the same time is through the chute.

This is the gist of it. Rings may enter the field over the station walls, but they may not be direct interaction between the human player and robot unless using the chute.

[Jeremytice]

I agree with you. I think that they are just talking about the Chute and how it is a one-way device.

[ahecht]

Read G23 as follows:

<G23> GAME PIECES through CHUTE – GAME PIECES may only be entered onto the field
through the CHUTE (see Rule <G08>). ROBOTS may not pass GAME PIECES from the
Playing Field through the CHUTE into the Alliance Zone.

The key word is entered, not only. Therefore, I predict that this rule will be updated to read "The CHUTE may only be used to enter GAME PIECES onto the field."

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by ahecht

The key word is entered, not only. However, I predict that this rule will be updated to read "The CHUTE may only be used to enter GAME PIECES onto the field."

Except <G48> reads:

...either by attempting to throw it to a robot or onto the rack...

followed by

...If Game Pieces are thrown, they must be thrown over the top of the alliance station wall...

[Dan Zollman]

Interesting...that could eliminate the need to drive back and forth between the rack and the wall.

On the other hand, throwing the game pieces could damage robots, knock flags off, get in the way of robots being lifted by platforms...

[Ericgehrken]

G23 is located under Match Play and G48 is located under Team Member Action in the manual. R23 has a "see G08" about obtaining game which states that a robot may pick up a tube from the playing field surface. The rule about the Human Player actions states that a tube may be sent through the chute and/or by being thrown to over the field wall on their alliance side so that the robot can catch it or pick it up from the field surface. So in the end if the human player tosses the tube over the alliance wall or passes it through the chute the tube may legally enter game play for whatever that particular tube is eligible for (spoiling or ringers).

[|20807 61|2|_]

I remember reading in the rule book that any other interaction between anyone and the robot other than the HP giving the robot tubes through the chute results in immeadiate disqualification from that match. Correct me if I am wrong but I'm almost positive

[Cyberguy34000]

Originally Posted by worldbringer

... On the other hand, throwing the game pieces could damage robots, knock flags off, get in the way of robots being lifted by platforms...

AGHH!! Shield the robot! It's raining plastic pool tubes from above! Take cover! (dives under the control station)

Sorry couldn't resist that one.


In all seriousness, I don't think we have to worry about raining pool tubes damaging anything. I dare you to attempt to injure someone with one of these tubes. Aside from excessive and repeated whacking, or popping a tube right next someone's ear (ouch). There's really no way to hurt people with these things.

Now damage from the rubber balls from last year were a real concern, repeated pummelings from large chunks of rubber can hurt quite a bit, but teams managed to build robots (and flag holders) that withstood those just fine.

So, once you consider this stuff, I don't think we should have to really worry about the deadly tubes of robot destruction.

[Tetraman]

the ringers will pop before they bust metal.

[+()c|D]

it seems like the only "legal" way for the human player to pass on the game peices is through the shoot.
"<G23> GAME PIECES through CHUTE – GAME PIECES may only be entered onto the field through the CHUTE (see Rule <G08>)."
"Obtaining GAME PIECES - ROBOTS may obtain GAME PIECES via any of the following
methods: ...
Grasping RINGERS or SPOILERS that have been placed in the CHUTE by the HUMAN PLAYER"

That is the only part of G8 that says anything about human players, so I would believe the throwing over the Alliance Station Wall would be a violation of rule G8.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by +()c|D

it seems like the only "legal" way for the human player to pass on the game peices is through the shoot.
"<G23> GAME PIECES through CHUTE – GAME PIECES may only be entered onto the field through the CHUTE (see Rule <G08>)."
"Obtaining GAME PIECES - ROBOTS may obtain GAME PIECES via any of the following
methods: ...
Grasping RINGERS or SPOILERS that have been placed in the CHUTE by the HUMAN PLAYER"

That is the only part of G8 that says anything about human players, so I would believe the throwing over the Alliance Station Wall would be a violation of rule G8.

But you can't say that because <G48> currently says that it is possible to toss them.

There is no answer to this question until FIRST responds to it.