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Unread 08-01-2007, 00:09
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

The alliance with the most points during the autonomous period is going to have an advantage because the points scored during auto. mode cant be canceled out or de-scored.
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Unread 08-01-2007, 00:22
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

Ahhh... the beauty of an exponential series...

ANY tube you put up there has the potential to double your score. It doesn't matter whether it is the first... in auto mode... or the last.

What you do in auto mode doesn't just ADD to what you do in driver mode... it multiplies it. In matches between top alliances it may turn out to be one of the most important auto modes FIRST has devised so far.

And I don't think you need to use the camera to score in auto, either. Sensors, obviously... the camera, no.

Jason
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Unread 08-01-2007, 10:21
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtengineering View Post
Ahhh... the beauty of an exponential series...

ANY tube you put up there has the potential to double your score. It doesn't matter whether it is the first... in auto mode... or the last.

What you do in auto mode doesn't just ADD to what you do in driver mode... it multiplies it. In matches between top alliances it may turn out to be one of the most important auto modes FIRST has devised so far.

And I don't think you need to use the camera to score in auto, either. Sensors, obviously... the camera, no.

Jason
I'd like to quote what Jason said because he put it in words better than I thought I could. Due to the exponential scoring of the nature, the relationship between autonomous and teleoperated is no longer addition, it's multiplication. Which is why I'm starting to think it could end up proving to be as important as Aim High was. Just because with some fast offense, you could end up with a row 5 of which won't be amazingly hard to defend due to it's "heart" being guaranteed.
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Unread 08-01-2007, 00:26
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

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Originally Posted by 1885.Blake View Post
I want to really emphasize what other folks have said, by offering this perspective. At the end of the autonomous mode you haven't scored any points. No referee computes a score at the end of Auto during this game, and no bonus is given to anyone. So, don't think at all about what your score is at the end of Auto....

Instead at the end of Auto you should think about how your alliance is now positioned for having an expected score (high, low or medium) at the end of the match.

This year's Auto is about accomplishing objectives that prep your alliance for the rest of the match, not about writing down a score at the end of Auto. Computing your score at that moment is akin to asking the proverbial "wrong question".

Blake
I really agree with you. I see this year's autonomous as providing you with a better position to build onto, rather than a score to transfer. This year's autonomous could really give you either control of a row, or control of a column, both of which can put you in a very good situation to score from.

Guy
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Unread 08-01-2007, 08:20
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

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Originally Posted by 1885.Blake View Post
This year's Auto is about accomplishing objectives that prep your alliance for the rest of the match, not about writing down a score at the end of Auto. Computing your score at that moment is akin to asking the proverbial "wrong question".
This is really what I think FIRST has been wanting autonomous mode to be for some time; the only reason I believe they made last year's auto as important as it was is so that teams would be forced into doing it, with not bothering to try basically "giving the game" to an opponent who does. This year's is just Triple Play's autonomous again, but with a better target system this time.

Also, think outside the box; scoring a keeper is not the only useful thing you can do in autonomous. I'm glad to see the 15 seconds back; since I'm confident we will get the camera working with ease after using it so much last year, I'm looking more to work on what to do after/aside from scoring a keeper...
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Unread 07-01-2007, 19:54
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

Autonomous is close to usless this year, IMO. It's only an automatic row of three if you are teamed with two bots that can set up rings right next to each other w/o conflicting with you or themselves, then it won't do much good.
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Unread 07-01-2007, 21:13
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

I think this year's auto mode will still have great value. Maybe not as high as last year's, however.

The Keepers scored in auto mode can be very important in the formation of chains of 6/7/8. I think it's not very feasible to make a chain of 8 without 2 or 3 of them being keepers.

Also, "winning" auto mode can set your alliance up with a slight, yet possibly useful, lead.
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Unread 07-01-2007, 21:35
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

I agree with those who say that this year Autonomous is a bit of a let down and reminds me a lot of 2005's except there's no hanging anything to knock down. Unless you're with some great teams, your chances of stacking three in a row in autonomous is extremely low. Today we played around with our 2005 bot to see how easy it is to place a ringer. The first try took about 2.5 mins, the second try it took about 1.5 minutes and there wasn't much improvement after that. Obviously our gripper is not suited for this game, but if its that hard to line up our robot when we have full control, it'll be very tough to do in autonomous. We feel dedicated to try and get it to work, but I bet a majority of teams won't be able to do it. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong.

Another bummer is that there's nothing else you can do in auto mode for points. Drive to the opposite side and try defend someone? That's about it.
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Unread 08-01-2007, 13:46
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

Everyone seems only to be considering the points; what about defense? The cage that houses the spiders can be knocked three feet off it's base, right? Why not knock the cage towards your opponents? That makes it harder for the enemy to score (the cage will interfere), while making it easier for your allies to score. Of course, if you knock it while your allies are trying to score....
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Unread 08-01-2007, 14:48
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

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That makes it harder for the enemy to score
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Unread 10-01-2007, 13:24
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

I think the group is correct, that autonomous has been devalued from previous years.
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Unread 13-01-2007, 22:47
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Re: Advantage given by succesful autonomous mode

I still reall think that alliances that plan well can make great things out of auto this year. Compatible alliances could, for example, get both the top and middle locations in one colum, esatablish a row of 2 (or maybe even 3...) on any row, and do much other craziness. It might be a bit less important than Aim High, but I still like it.

-Guy
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