Risk of the Lift?

[Éowyn]

IMO, if done correctly, a lift can be just as safe as a ramp.

[The Revolver]

Originally Posted by cgredalertcc

This is my personal apology for my "attitude" earlier. Turns out after crunching the numbers lift = lighter than ramp. So drum roll please 1741 is.......lifting!! We'll see how it works. I do have a question. If we were to use honeycomb (the metal used for certain surfaces on comercial air craft) and used glue to attach the skin is that within the rules? As they read it says that you may not use adhesive back tapes, but this isn't tape so I think its legal but I wanted other opinions if you wouldn't mind.

Thanks

Thanks for letting out our secret!!!! Just kidding... At first our team went unanimously for the ramp, then the vote flipped and I was stuck on the ramp. Now, well I still think a ramp is going to be lighter, safer, and easier to build, but a lift does have its advantages. So I guess it's official that our team (1741) is lifting...

[Marcel]

All I know is that at the competition I know there has to be an alliance where one robot will go onto another robot and then that robot will try to lift the other and then all three will flip over and the whole regional will go quiet while this happens. Oh and the pit area is going to freak out with the silence too probably.

[Ken Loyd]

My nightmare begins with a rookie team driving up our ramp full speed and crashing into our ringer arm. Ramps give me grey hair....oops, all my hair is grey as I type.

Ken

[cgredalertcc]

Originally Posted by Ken Loyd

My nightmare begins with a rookie team driving up our ramp full speed and crashing into our ringer arm. Ramps give me grey hair....oops, all my hair is grey as I type.

Ken

I had an interesting thought. Lets say that my team has two independently lifting platforms set up so that the other two alliance members can drive on and be lifted when they are safely on and stop. Would it be worthwhile to have the other two alliance members hit the disbale button when they are on so they don't accidentally drive off and give us a reputation as a robot dropper.

[cgredalertcc]

alright i'm signing out of this argument 1741 has its methods don't you worry.

[cgredalertcc]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

Hmm, You must have been watching a different competition than I was last year. The number of teams that couldn't climb the ramp surprised me. The number of teams that tried to climb the ramp and fell over astounded me.

I wasn't refering to the ramp of last years competition. If you had a more shallow grade on your ramp it is easier to get onto. Also a ramp wouldn't require the counter balancing that would come with lifting a robot.

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by cgredalertcc

I wasn't refering to the ramp of last years competition. If you had a more shallow grade on your ramp it is easier to get onto.

Of course, however a lot of teams couldn't climb the ramp last year because on low ground clearance. I am just trying to point out that these robots are/should be built to take a beating, fall over, etc. A ramp is not always "safe" and even a 12" fall shouldn't be the death of a robot.

Originally Posted by cgredalertcc

Also a ramp wouldn't require the counter balancing that would come with lifting a robot.

I think you should broaden your thinking about not cantileaverd lifts.

[cgredalertcc]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

Of course, however a lot of teams couldn't climb the ramp last year because on low ground clearance.

Right but by making the angle more gentle you eliminate the ground clearance issue as well.

[paulcd2000]

last year, people knew the ramp would be there, and they still weren't able to get up. this year, the ramp isn't actually a game element, so people will be even less likely to design enough torque, or a low enough cg. also, the ramp will probably be pretty narrow. i know that when running from across the field, with 10 seconds left, there is almost no way to make it to the ramp, get aligned, and get up in time.

[T3_1565]

True enough. Most people wont be sitting in the home zone with like 30 secs left in the match to be sure someone knows there set up for the whole ramp thing. I think I lift would be much faster if pulled off right. As I posted in another thread A forklift can lift a lot more than its own weight with no worry of tipping, and even if there was a chance build safety arms or something on the side so at most the robot tips a bit and wont fall off. One foot isn't much so anything is possible really.. it will depend on the situation. but a lift is do-able.

[pyrome]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

Hmm, You must have been watching a different competition than I was last year. The number of teams that couldn't climb the ramp surprised me. The number of teams that tried to climb the ramp and fell over astounded me.

The ramp was angled more off the ground last year. This year we have the option of making the ramp relatively flat.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by pyrome

The ramp was angled more off the ground last year. This year we have the option of making the ramp relatively flat.

Last year the ramp angle was known and robots were designed to climb them (and still many failed). This year, if an alliance robot has a ramp, the angle will not be known, the width may, or may not be sufficient, and some robots will not be designed to climb a ramp. Last years ramp was a solid unmoving structure, this year (if a robot has a ramp) it will be mobile, and probably flex under load. Remember, the longer you make it, the more structure it needs to support the weigh. Lets hope people dont weight reduce structural members.

So even a 'relatively flat' ramp may prove to be a difficult (if not impossible) obsticle.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Pavan

With this years game there are two main ideas of how to get the robot up either four inches or twelve inches. They are by ramp or by lifting. For those that are lifting and for those that plan to either climb or be lifted, I believe that the lift is much more dangerous. Although with the ramp you have to to keep it in your base and with 2" of clearance due to bumpers you will need to have a small angle thus a longer ramp, it is much more safer. Your robot is always on solid ground. With the lift you are in the air. Are you sure 30 points is worth the risk of your robot falling twelve inches off of the ground? Although I hope this never happens, I think before teams start thinking of being lifted that they should all consider the possibilities both positive and negative. The main one is a robot falling, and today when my team was discussing this I thought of the fact that if you are being lifted up, you are no longer in control of your robot, and that if anything happens your robot will fall. What if it does? Will your team build a more robust robot that can take a twelve inch fall? Will your team prepare for a worst case scenario?

Before you answer keep in mind that six hard weeks of planning, designing, and building went are going to go into your creation.


Pavan.

Well they don't tell you to build the robots hardy for nothing.
In 2004 I saw robots drop from five feet and still manage to survive and function (after some repair work) one even went as far as the final four after it dropped from the bar. Unless you built your robot out of porcelin I don't think a one foot drop is all that big a deal.

[Kim Masi]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Well they don't tell you to build the robots hardy for nothing.
In 2004 I saw robots drop from five feet and still manage to survive and function (after some repair work) one even went as far as the final four after it dropped from the bar. Unless you built your robot out of porcelin I don't think a one foot drop is all that big a deal.

On Galileo at Nationals during FIRST Frenzy, there was a robot suspended in the air, as high as the bar, 10 feet. The entire robot fell off the bar (yes, it fell all ten feet!), landed on polycarbonate and somehow managed to survive. Teams just have to take careful consideration when designing their robot. If you plan to drive up on any other robot, or lift other robots, you have to take the risk factor into consideration.

Also, I think thats the risk that it takes when deisigning any robot. This is what makes the game more interesting to watch.