The Future of Nationals

[Mike S.]

I think the idea of DisneyWorld and a DisneyLand Nationals is awesome. There might be cons to it, but think of the pros, it certainly gives Disney World some breathing room, and i don't think it would be like a multi-park event.
To have two nationals, one at the east coast and one at the west coast, would utilize the fact that FIRST stretches all over the US, and if FIRST keeps growing by leaps and bounds, such as it has been, then FIRST is going to run into problems, because then DISNEY is definitely going to say no, because they won't have the personnel or the man strength to handle the size of the Nats, and i don't think Dean or anyone at FIRST HQ would like to limit Nats, i would think they would want it to grow, and having two big nationals would definitely show that it has grown.
Also, think of a National Finals in (i think somebody said DC) that would be even greater. A competition in our nations capital would be sure to catch some attention.
I realize i have only been in the program a couple of years, but i think someone is going to have to come up with a solution of FIRST's popularity and growth, so no one gets shut out of something like Nats because we are to big, that would be horrible. It's just my opinion that this way of nationals would be a cool alternative.

That’s my opinion, i would like to hear what people think.
MIke

[Matt Leese]

Originally posted by colleen-t190

As for planning in two weeks: well, I gotta go with Andy B there and say that planning travel for WashingtonDC or something wouldn't be very hard. And FIRST could even reserve Xrooms for each team that would be attending and the teams could just pay FIRST for them. Then the online thing to worry about is airfare.. and well, travelling to Orlando is totally different than going to most places.. it's a hopping destination no matter when...

DC wouldn't be exactly the best place to hold nationals (or finals or whatever). We'll start first with the fact that there isn't any arenas or sports stadiums inside of DC. There are also no large buildings (no building can be higher than the capital) which cuts down on hotels. A good portion of DC isn't the nicest area because of crime. So that basically leaves you outside of the city if you want to be in the area. And I don't even want to get started on traffic. Let's just say I made the mistake of driving in DC rush hour traffic once and I don't intend to do it again.

Matt

[Madison]

Okay...first thing to get out of the way.

Disneyland can not support a National Competition, or half of one, or anything remotely close. Land in Anaheim is at a premium, and DL is landlocked (The reason that the WDW property is 47 sq. mi.) . . . California Adventure sits in Disneyland's former parking lot. There's no room there. Nada.

A stadium or theater in the round arrangement for the finals seems to be the easiest and most realistic alternative. Perhaps FIRST can design a game with this in mind? The competition from the past few years doesn't really allow for any sort of spectator viewings from the ends. . .maybe a round or octagonal field?

There's one big hurdle in that plan. . . cover. Having a centrally located stage makes setting up the A/V and lighting systems hard enough. But, don't forget. . .the Main Stage needs to be covered from the rain! I think everyone's overlooking that. So, that means someone's got to erect some sort of roof over the stage, but that roof has to be high enough so that everyone can see under it. Can you see how things get a bit hairy now? That roof is a big deal.

So... with that in mind, does anyone have any suggestions?

If I get really bored at work today, maybe I'll do some research into the convention facilities at the Contemporary Resort. They're huge. . .I know that much. Perhaps we can be housed there? It's only a short walking distance from the Magic Kingdom (and the backstage entrance to Tomorrowland)

[Jessica Boucher]

I totally agree with you on this one, Michael; I think you clarified what I said in an earlier post.

Yes, what can be done? Come on, we're all engineers here (in some way or form )

[Mike S.]

After re-reading all the posts, it seems that people aren't talking about what was stated in the original post. To all those people that are talking about how the stage is setup or where the competition could be located in WDW, that isn't the problem. The problem is that FIRST and the nationals are getting way to big and Disney doesn't have enough man power to handle FIRST, I think someone else mentioned the fact that we hold nationals in April which is a very busy time for Disney, which is also very true.

I think the problem that should be concerning everyone is how can we make it so that everyone that wants to attend nationals can and not limit nationals because we are too big. Someone, I think Scott, mentioned some possibilities such as, based on last years or this years performance. I think that is very opposite of what FIRST is trying to do, its limiting teams based on their robot performance, and in my opinion if your team builds a robot and its able to move an inch then you deserve to be in nationals just as much as anyone else, and that’s what first is all about, learning and having fun, not to go out and win win win.

Also, so people mentioned the possible amount of money Disney profited, The Disney Corporation in general makes hundreds of millions if not maybe billions a day from their customers, I don't think $6 million is that much to them.

This is my opinion.
Mike

[Matt Leese]

Just a bit of a clarification. That would be $6,000,000 in revenue, not profit. They are very different things. This assumes approximately $350 per person to Disney times 17,000 people.

Matt

[Carolyn Duncan]

Mike, I think that our talk of how to set things up for more people is trying to solve Disney's problem. They claim to not be able to set up with enough space for all of us. If we can come up with a way for all of us to be there then Disney will have options. Get it or am I way out there somewhere? As far as the 6 million dollars... Well, there's more that goes with that. Besides us staying in their hotels some people have parents go with them, some people buy park tix, everyone buys food, and the team party. All of this adds to the collection. They also get tax write offs for having us there. While I understand that is only a percentage back, it's still a good size chunck. The bottom line is whether or not Disney is willing to work with us. To me it is becoming increasingly evident that they are not.
Just my thoughts...

[EddieMcD]

Disney said that if we come, they'll build it. So, lets hold them to their word.

[Mike S.]

It isn't the fact that Disney isn't working with us, I think disney has done an excellent job accomidating us. Its the fact that they don't have enough personell, also having all those extra busses flowing through their property during busy season, doesn't help either.

Some people are listing seperate places we can hold nationals, such as multi-parking, but, i don't think space is the problem becasue look at all the extra parking lots EPCOT has.

Our homework assignment was to increase the number of teams, and i think everyone is going to see that has happen, but with more teams comes a problem, if we let nationals keep going at the rate it is, Disney is going to say no more teams we can't handle it. Thats where i see the problem, and i think that's where Scott sees it also, pertaining to his orginal post. Also, Colleen the idea of two nationals would help greatly by reducing the numbers and it would give us time before we have to deal with this sort of an issue again. It would certianly give Disney a break.

I personally wouldn't like to see teams, shut out or have to qualify for nationals, because thats not what FIRST is about.
I also think nationals isn't going to be this big happy get together because already people are stressing over it. Two nationals would cut everything in half, *colleen*, and think how easy that would make things. If everyone takes time and thinks about a two national deal, with a national finals, being held somewhere, i think alot of people will see many pros to it.

Mike

[ColleenShaver]

I think one of the first things we all need to understand is that.. no matter what you think.. Disney doesn't need us..

and, no matter what you think, we NEED Disney.. It's high profile.. it's a great selling point.. and I think with the right touches and convincing by the right people, Disney will be the way we break onto National TV and really start to get FIRST out to everyone.

And yes, as stated by Patrick at the forums "There is plenty of parking lot left" .... that's true. But as much as we like to complain about them, Disney puts in A LOT of time and personal in that arena and running the show and there might just not be the people to put it on. And seating on the big stage.. it's nearly impossible to get many more in..

In the end- look at this.. the majority of the people in FIRST probably would never visit Disney on their own if it wasn't for the competition.. I've been 6 times but never would have gone and prolly will never go without FIRST (lack of $$ not desire ;-)).. Disney has to remember their other customers too.. cause they are the ones that come back annually and regularly and they are the ones that keep Disney up and running, not us. And I'm sorry, but I'd hate to be one of those customers when FIRST is around.. because I've seen how loud and obnoxious some people on my own teams have been and I can't imagine being a family w/ small children around them. Just look how everyone over runs the pool and the buses between parks, etc. It's a bit much sometimes... with 10,000~ high schoolers, it's to be expected I guess.. but the happiest place on earth has to try to keep EVERYONE happy, not just us..

Disney is working w/ us.. so don't everyone jump on the "disney doesn't want this.." and "disney won't do this.." bandwagon because it just isn't logical to me..

more than my two cents.. but oh well.

[Mike S.]

Exactly, thats what i was trying to say, i am glad somebody views the same points as me.

Mike

[Jeff Waegelin]

The only problem with FIRST reserving rooms is team size. What happens to a large team that exceeds the allotted rooms? What do you do with small teams that don't use all their space? The obvious solution would be to give extra rooms to large teams except there are not enough really small teams to offset the really large teams.

I love the idea of having split nationals with a "Finals" competition based on performance, but I think that the logistical implications of such a move make any gains from such a move moot. It is all but impossible to make hotel and airfare plans for a family at short notice, let alone for a team of 30+ people.

Now..... If you space out the nationals and finals, you run into a third problem. Lack of excitement. If you don't wait long enough, you have scheduling and logistics problems. If you wait too long, you run the risk of diminished enthusiasm. Part of the thrill of the competition is in the frantic scramble from the final build week to nats. The constant rush to get ready, compete, repair, and compete again keeps the excitement going. If you wait until June to have the finals, teams in the finals get bored, and teams not in the finals lose interest, especially if the game is not as fun to watch. I for one would have found it hard to watch a finals competition this summer (Especially considering the domination of a certain team....). It just wasn't that fun, and one to two month's waiting would have killed the enthusiasm of Nationals.

So, now that I've given my $0.02 on the matter, i ask this: What could be done to make a split Nats (with or without Finals) as exciting as the current model, with the fewest problems?

[Jeff Waegelin]

Originally posted by Matt Leese
This assumes approximately $350 per person to Disney times 17,000 people.

$350? I would have to say it's more than that. I mean, a one-day ticket to Disney costs at least $40. You throw in multi-day passes, hotels on-site (for many of the teams), souvenirs, and food for a bunch of teenagers, and you get a lot more than 350 bucks a head.

[ColleenShaver]

Well- let's think about it for a minute--

if you were a part of one of the two alliances to travel to Nationals, there would definitely be no excitement loss.. it would be great opportunity to promote FIRST and build excitement in your and surrounding communities..

As for everyone else losing interest.. it's basically being said that teams lose interest in FIRST after Nats.. which is totally untrue.. look how much talk went on about all the comps.. even the A&E special that aired. Imagine if the National Finals held on the lawn of the Whitehouse were being broadcast on TV.. you can't tell me these forums wouldn't be hopping w/ comments from all you close-to-1000 posters!

And we're talking about FIRST reserving rooms to accommodate (sp?) 4-6 teams only. They could even limit each team to a certain number of team members (something like $30). It's not like we're talking making it elementory for nationals and suddenly 2 weeks before the competition, 300 teams are trying to make reservations for travel to Disney. That's exactly the problem I'm trying to toss out ideas to prevent

[Carolyn Duncan]

Well, Jeff, I don't think there is a way to make the split nationals as exciting as non split. There is one simple reason, nationals now is more exciting based on the numbers. You get more electricity from a larger group. You also get the feeling of winning something in front of everyone who participated in the competition. That's a huge feeling. And having all those people cheering for you is beyond anything else imaginable.
And as for limiting the number of people a team can take with them is awful. I can understand eliminating the "Florida club" that everyteam is plagued with but not eliminating hard working members of the team. In many cases it would be the animation team that would be eliminated from attending. That's not right, I won't even say fair because life's not fair but FIRST should be based on Gracious Professionalism.