Who built your robot?

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally posted by PyroPhin
how can you learn if you dont get your hands dirty?

Yes, I agree that FIRST is not about actually building a robot, but how can you learn and get inspired about technology if you are sitting on the sidelines?

As long as a student comes out of FIRST inspired about science and technology, the team has been successful. I used to have the same mentality - "how can you be inspired if you aren't doing anything?" I've come to realize that while I need to get my hands dirty and actually work on something to learn about it, some people can learn by just 'sitting on the sidelines' and watching. I know of a few students on my team who just watch people. They don't do too much mechanically, but they learn a lot just by watching.

On my team, almost everything is done 100% by students. Strategy, robot concepts, choosing a design, building the robot, machining the parts, wiring, programming, testing, debugging - even things like the BOM, ordering parts, animations, Chairman's, fund raising ideas, printing t-shirts, ordering swappables ... it's all student done. Our engineers and teachers are wonderful - they let us make mistakes, so we learn from them. They help us out with the design (letting us know what concepts are feasible and what concepts could probably be refined), and make sure we stay on track. I don't think my team could function any other way.

- Katie

[johnscans]

our robot is entirely student built. we have 2 mentors. is our head mentor who helps with everything, but is a preety gold welder and the other is good with electronics. its definately more rewarding when you know that all the work was done by students.

john scans

[Matthew936]

I hate to say it but our robot is 80% engineer built, it started out as student built, we even went to the machine shop and ran the mills. but the mentors decided to have the engineers do a little work for us over a weekend, and next thing we know we got a working chasis with drivetrain, controls and a lifting arm that worked, much to our dismay.

Having a dozen+ engineers sucks

[Adam Y.]

Sparky is designed, built, programed, and tested by students. Sure, you don't win or get the Chairmans, but you learn.

I think a student built robot would actually help improve your chances of getting the chairman's award.

[EvilInside]

Our team is 95% student designed and built. We have one physics teacher, one engineer, and the owner of Price Engineering. The engineer welds and troubleshoots a bit, the owner orders a few parts from time to time, and the physics teacher helps with programming a bit, but our robot is and always has been student dominated.

[Shawn60]

On a side note, how do some teams even GET that many teams. What over-bloated company is sponsering these teams? We haven't had one single engineer. Ever. Our only non-student is our physics teacher, who only says if something will work or not--the rest is done by us (except that he'll hold something that we're cutting occasionally).

Bono

Would you like access to more engineers/machinists/sponsors? We made A LOT of money in a couple of months doing presentations for companies. We have access to a professional machine shop and machinists. You are in Vegas and we are in Kingman (1.5-2 hours away). I am sure we could set something up.That goes for any other teams near Vegas or Kingman.

e-mail me at thefamh@frontiernet.net

Shawn Hardina
Teacher/Adviser
Team 60

[John Bono]

Well, considering we're finishing the actual body on Monday--it's to late for this year. NEXT year, however...
Bleh--I don't like talking business, especially since I'll be off in Indiana this time next year most likely. And I laugh at your time approximation. It takes an hour and a half just to get to state line.
And remember, Vegas is very different than any other city in the country. CASINOS RUN THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND *HATE* EDUCATION. In fact, education generally isn't really respected in the Las Vegas Valley at all. Trust us, we've been trying--although I don't know about the machine shop dealy.

[andy]

Look....
We are a rookie team, we have about 3 people who know about mechanical stuff and about 20 who are interested in electrical. We are a magnet school meaning every one is unbelieviebly smart at math and science (well some of us)(I personally enjoy the luxury of a seinor in AP BC Calculus-my own walking calculator)

But I digress...
The robot so far has been 100% student designed built and tested (what we have to test) (Except some TIG welding on our chassis) (you really ought to get a pro to do that otherwise they dont work really well)(and he tought us to do it so we can do it next year)

Our teacher is an electrical engineer and is not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to mechanics. We have no engineers. So we basically build by "the seat of our pants"

Dont knock the engineers I wish we had 'em we really have no clue what we are diong and an engineer that would help out would be great. Our robot in my opinion will kick butt and it is incriediable simple. Nothing fancy. Again the robot is a delicate balence between engineering and how well the engineer/s(to be) get along with one another. Just kidding!

Honestly i think if we had some engineers to help out it would result in a better robot but would we still inspire....

Wow that turned into a ramble...
-Andy

[GregT]

Way to bring up a 2 year old thread

Greg

[evulish]

Chuck has become a more-and-more engineer-built robot. Sad. The students come up with the basic ideas. Then the engineers refine them, draft them, change them. They have the drive-train built, all the placement figured out. Then the students cut parts. The majority of the season is watching the engineers work. There are days when there are no students even involved (because we aren't allowed, I guess). I think us students have a small idea of what's going on with the robot but not sure of the reasoning behind all the stuff. It's really not all that fun this year :/

[D. Gregory]

Our team is student designed and run. Us students completely design, refine, and draft the rovot. For the building, often it is the students setting up the cut/drill and the adult pressing the button and push/pulling. This is because our board has insanely strict regulations about students using power tools. For a school with 2200 students and class sizes of 25-30, we only have 3 teachers who are allowed to supervise us cutting. One of them is on our team but we can't expect him to be with us all the time. We have two mentors, a former team member who has mentored us since our 2000-2001 Canada FIRST season, and another adult who helps us with cutting and building. Our first mentor acts as a regular team member who doeasn't need supervision cutting. Our second member acts as the hand who presses the power button. Our team is more rookie this year than it was last years. Last year most, of our team was returning members from the previous Canada FIRST year. Out of 32 members this year, there are only 3 returning members. I really don't have a problem with heavily mentored teams as long as the students in the pits know their robot. It bugs me when
a) You see 5 mentors working around a robot with no students helping
b) When the students don't know how their robot works.
Mentors are a very important part of FIRST but student learning and experience is what makes FIRST what it is. Some teams may want to re-evaluate how they work. A mentor-less FIRST would not be good but a mentor-run FIRST would ruin it. One issue that hasn't been looked at is that heavily mentored teams set the bar so high for complicated scoring bots that it forces less supported teams to take the simpler pusher/power route in order to remain competitive. If anything, overly mentored teams decrease the creativity of un-supported teams who wish to remain competitive.

[sanddrag]

Our robot is 95% student designed and 97% student built. The engineers and mentors only point out if there is something fataly wrong with a design and we fix it. As for the building, the only parts not done by students are 2 CNCed parts and 4 welds.

[FAKrogoth]

On our 'bot, everyone who is really interested works. Except for those working on the Inventor stuff and the website, the entire team is the mechanical team. For example, I'm the one with the most experience in Inventor, but I spend 85 minutes every day on the mechanical stuff. I can't really work on the modeling, because I'm out of the loop (the CADDlab and school as a whole are on separate networks, and I haven't remembered my Novell password in the past 13.5 months). However, despite my lack of official duties, I don't think it will be a problem getting one of the coveted spots on the team at Regionals (We can only take ~8-10 students).

As for engineers/professionals/parents/adults of any sort other than Mr. Johnson, we have absolutely none. Even the Engineering Technologies teacher is not involved. (why we haven't asked him is another thing entirely. We're just happy he's letting us use the drill press) I can say with complete confidence that our robot is 100% student-done. That is, IF you consider our lone (freshman) alumnus (who really doesn't know more than us yet) a student.

[AJ Quick]

I'm glad to say that our robot has only really been worked on 10% by the engineers, and 90% the students (50% RBayer). I have heard that in past years, the ratio was the other way around, and I know that drove new members away from the team.

Next year, there should be high interests in it.

[Bruce C.]

Originally posted by Pamela
But once I got to work hands on the robot with the engineers helping us out and giving us instruction I decided to go to a good engineerign school so one day I could to work with high school kids in a great program like FIRST.

And I think you picked a fine Engineering School!

Seriously, I agree with everything you said. On my team, we engineers (most with 20-30 years experience) are trying to have the students do as much as possible. However, there are some things, mostly organizational, that we really have to take charge of, or there would be no robot on shipping day. Our team is only in it's third year, and a solid organizational system hasn't yet evolved. All of us mentors/engineers are in a military organization, and are used to taskings, responsibility, mission accomplishment, and rigid discipline. We are at the school working on the robot nearly every day, but most students show up sporatically. So we end up being the continuity.

It is gratifying this year to see that a couple of the freshman and sophmore students have really grasped the concept of the electrical and control systems, and can operate without much guidance in that area. They still need a LOT of help in the mechanical and drivetrain area. They have lots of ideas, but can't execute them. The engineers have to guide them into the realm of the possible. But that will change. As the team gets more experience, they'll be able to do that, too.

Great discussion. My philosophy is just try to make it better every year.

Regards, and have fun in the frozen Northland,

Bruce C.
BSEE
Clarkson College of Technology, Class of '70