Color Coded Bumpers as Flag Replacements?

[Travis Hoffman]

Anyone in Pittsburgh knows that Team 1038 used red or blue color coded bumpers to designate their alliance during the qualifying matches. They were very visible to spectators at all times.

My question - can a similar bumper system be put in place to get rid of the flags/flag holders and all the complications they bring to the competition? They rarely stay put; they end up being ringer magnets; and they are often hard to see from all angles. Having color-coded bumpers would solve all that.

I wouldn't expect all teams to create 2 sets of red and blue bumpers for the event, but all teams COULD be required to set aside a square "alliance patch area" covered in velcro on each side of their robot, inside the bumper zones. Instead of flags, teams would be given four matching red or blue color patches to place in these areas for the match. Even if teams chose not to use bumpers, they could still make sure these patch areas were present on their bot in the bumper zones.

Opinions? Comments?

Anyway, kudos to Team 1038 for their creative bumper color coding.

[Dan 1038]

Travis,

Some of the 'bots in Pitt had very little room for this type of card in the bumper zone this year, so there may need to be some sort of spec area for the placards...

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Dan 1038

Travis,

Some of the 'bots in Pitt had very little room for this type of card in the bumper zone this year, so there may need to be some sort of spec area for the placards...

I did suggest that teams without bumpers could still provide the patch areas in their bumper zones (i.e. on their frames or their Lexan guarding); however, I'd intend for such a system to be implemented in future seasons. I don't expect the rules to change in the middle of the current season.

[Ed Coleman]

Not that I disagree with the idea behind the color coding. I would be against it based on the fact that it is one great place for us to use our team/school colors.

[Dan 1038]

Originally Posted by T. Hoffman

I don't expect the rules to change in the middle of the current season.

Understood, it would just force teams to make room in the bumper zone if the rules were changed. Of all the robots in Pitt, I can only think of one or two which were lacking the room currently.

[1359th Scalawag]

I dont know how much of my team I speak for, but I dont specifically want bumpers on our robots. I'd say it's mostly an imagery thing, I wouldn't want the entire side of our robot to be blue or red. In my opinion, ours looks cooler without bumpers and I wouldn't like to be forced to use them.

[Dave Campbell]

Travis,
Years ago, 1999 I think, we did have to use a placard indicating the team alliance color. That was the first year we did alliances. The required placard was not nearly as visible as our bumpers, nor did they stay in place during most matches. That was the year before the really cool rotating beacons with red/blue lenses (brittle and NOT shatter-proof!)
I would LOVE to get rid of the silly alliance flags, specifically this year as they have become notorious for unscoring ringers, carrying permanent scoring object on your now useless scoring robot, and just becoming dangerous projectiles during vigorous robot interaction. With the variety of robot classes and configurations of central mass structures, many flags can not be quickly seen by refs and spectators. I do appreciate the need for alliance identification, although our bumpers started as a silly suggestion during week 5 of the build that has played out interestingly.
Like you said, I don't think anything will change mid-season but if our multi-colored bumpers can invoke chages with alliance indicators, we're happy to help!

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by 1359th Scalawag

I dont know how much of my team I speak for, but I dont specifically want bumpers on our robots. I'd say it's mostly an imagery thing, I wouldn't want the entire side of our robot to be blue or red. In my opinion, ours looks cooler without bumpers and I wouldn't like to be forced to use them.

If you read all of Travis's idea, he suggests an idea for teams that dont want to use bumpers as well. You can just creat a side panel that has room to velcro the fabric. Its really not that hard.

We use our bumpers for imagery as well(red camo fabric that matches our pants & pit), but I personally would be happy to give up half a bumper on each side to an alliance color if it got rid of the flags. I think this is a great idea!

Going back a ways, I wonder what ever happened to the red & blue covered siren lights... They could be difficult to mount, but they were very visible from everywhere... and if you planned it right, they were easy to see.

[Rich Ross]

i vote no.

Bumpers already get hit pretty hard, and i feel like a small amount of Velcro isn't going to hold Something on that well.

The flags are bad, but many times you can tell which robot is on which alliance

The Bumpers are completely used by some teams to print things like sponsors (look at 469's bumpers if you don't believe me)

Ref's job should be made easier, not harder. What if the placards are blocked by another robot in the way? then you might forget which alliance a team is on and make a bad call (which nobody wants)

With how many people don't read the rules, the number of teams announcing in the pits that they need Velcro for their bumpers would be atrocious.

Good idea Trav, but i don't think it will happen, and for the reasons above, i don't think it should either. Great idea, but i think there are too many problems with it.

Now, that in addition to the rotating light or something like that, would be great!

[Cactus_Robotics]

i agree, the flags need to go, i think the best was the rotating light.

[Lil' Lavery]

There will NEVER be a solution everyone is happy with (sadly). I like the rotating lights the best, but I know many who didn't. Bumpers would be cool, but they are so visible that they often play a major part of the teams imagery and/or school/team number/sponsor placement.

[Ben Piecuch]

I LOVE the idea of color coded bumpers! Having a "patch area" to velcro on a red or blue swatch is not difficult at all. I agree with Kim on this, I would gladly give up a sq ft of space on our bumpers to eliminate the flag and flag holder. Plus, it's looking like FIRST really wants to make bumpers mandatory for all robots, so we may as well get used to having them there.

Now, I've read all the "negatives" about this:
- It ruins our "imagery" efforts
- It takes away sponsor ads
- We don't use bumpers
- We don't have any velcro...

These are minor problems that are easily solved with about 5 minutes of forethought. I mean, seriously, how big are these flags, 4" by 8"? You can't find a flat spot on your robot to velcro this onto, or another area to put a sponsor's name? I can guarantee that more teams have velcro than a 1/2" PVC pipe and endcap...

Travis, excellent idea and solution to our flag concerns. I hope more people will read this and agree that there is a better solution out there.

BEN

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

We use our bumpers for imagery as well(red camo fabric that matches our pants & pit), but I personally would be happy to give up half a bumper on each side to an alliance color if it got rid of the flags.

Would you also be willing to give up the color red entirely? Because a patch of blue on a red background might not be seen - you'd see the red background instead. And as someone stated, what if the patch was pulled off? Now you're all red, no blue on that side.

I vote no.

[Nate Laverdure]

I have an idea that could replace flags, signs, blinking and spinning lights, and whatnot. Here goes:

An infrared camera mounted to the A/V scaffolding above the paying field would detect an IR beacon mounted on each of the 6 robots. This beacon would connect to each robot's RC and would transmit team number and alliance information to the IR camera, which would then send streaming video to a computer. Special software (as yet undeveloped) would interpret the video feed, extract the transmitted data, and send instructions to one or more laser show projectors also mounted to the A/V scaffolding. These instructions would include the location of each robot and the color of the alliance each robot was on. The laser(s) would simultaneously light up a circular area on the floor of the arena around each robot in the color specified by the instructions received by the computer. For members of the audience, it would appear that each robot were being bathed in a pool of light in the color of their alliance.

This, sans the exclamation mark (and big ugly ogre), is what I'm talking about:


You could do a whole lot more with this system. Say, for example, one of the robots on the blue alliance has a 'yellow flag'. Instead of a circle of blue light around the robot, the laser could inscribe a spiky blue star around it. Or maybe a robot on the red alliance has just scored 20 points -- the projector could animate the circle for a few seconds, transforming the pool of red light into a rapidly changing mix of shapes. During autonomous mode, all of the pools of light could transform into spinning saw blades. Or maybe at the very end of the match, the projector could simulate red and blue explosions around each robot.

The only problem I can foresee about this system (besides the fact that it would be exorbitantly expensive, would be difficult to set up and operate, and mostly relies on finicky emerging technologies) is that it might be a little annoying to watch. But it would be so cool!

[haroony341]

the flags are ok, they first to be used with the little square lights they had in 04 and 05 since you could barely see those. i did like the rotating light the most but they were big and bulky and often gave trouble for mounting. i would be a good idea to use a light similar to the orange indicator light they are using this year for trouble shooting. its small and still bright enough to see.