Color Coded Bumpers as Flag Replacements?

[Pavan Dave]

I believe that there are different ways to solve our current problems with flags and I do agree that bumper colors are a good idea. What I loved last year were those blue and red lights that displayed your alliance. Similar to this I also saw those siren caps that they used in past years and remembered that the orange lights are a similar shape and you can easily see them from the stands most of the time. With those two parts we could possibly make mini siren hoods or something similar to cap onto our orange lights to identify our team colors. It worked in the past and it would probably still work today if we wanted it to.

Why not work with what we have rather than reinventing the wheel?

Pavan.

[Bongle]

What about flashlight LEDs? Kinda like the 04/05 blinkers, but far brighter. They're efficient and they're small. In 2004 I brought a LED taillight from my dad's work to serve as a light in our pits, and it would definetely hurt your eyes if you looked right at it. It had like 40 on there, you'd only need one or two per blinker.

Problem is, I think they require their own special power supply, which means more complicated wiring. But the sirens in 03 needed their own spike, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.

[John Gutmann]

Originally Posted by Bongle

What about flashlight LEDs? Kinda like the 04/05 blinkers, but far brighter. They're efficient and they're small. In 2004 I brought a LED taillight from my dad's work to serve as a light in our pits, and it would definetely hurt your eyes if you looked right at it. It had like 40 on there, you'd only need one or two per blinker.

Problem is, I think they require their own special power supply, which means more complicated wiring. But the sirens in 03 needed their own spike, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.

I don't think the brightness is a problem I think it is just how small they are and that they flash. If you have diffused red LEDs in a light bar accross the top of the robot, that wouldnt be as bright but it is more visible.

[meatmanek]

Originally Posted by Bongle

Problem is, I think they require their own special power supply, which means more complicated wiring.

Sorta like the relay used to power the orange light this year?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

We use our bumpers for imagery as well(red camo fabric that matches our pants & pit), but I personally would be happy to give up half a bumper on each side to an alliance color if it got rid of the flags.

Would you also be willing to give up the color red entirely? Because a patch of blue on a red background might not be seen - you'd see the red background instead. And as someone stated, what if the patch was pulled off? Now you're all red, no blue on that side.

I vote no.

[mtaman02]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Going back a ways, I wonder what ever happened to the red & blue covered siren lights... They could be difficult to mount, but they were very visible from everywhere... and if you planned it right, they were easy to see.

These rotating lights were easily able to be broken, they were difficult to mount b/c of their size, they carried way too much weight, and above all they are expensive to purchase. FIRST made a good decision in ditching the rotating lights. visible they were but robot friendly they weren't. I'm kinda upset at the fact that they even ditched the LED clusters which were more robot friendly due to its size and weight. I like the color coded bumber or velcro coded system idea it would be alot better then these flags. And a alot more safer.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Originally Posted by mtaman02

These rotating lights were easily able to be broken, they were difficult to mount b/c of their size, they carried way too much weight, and above all they are expensive to purchase. FIRST made a good decision in ditching the rotating lights. visible they were but robot friendly they weren't. I'm kinda upset at the fact that they even ditched the LED clusters which were more robot friendly due to its size and weight. I like the color coded bumber or velcro coded system idea it would be alot better then these flags. And a alot more safer.

The LED clusters didn't put out enough light to differentiate between colors in the middle of a match.

[mtaman02]

I know I forgot to put that little bit of information in. Even still, they're better then these unsafe flags. You know how many flags went airborne during the matches in NJ and NYC. These flags are a serious hazard. The best way to do that is to go back to an indicator light to designate who's on what alliance or go with a color coded bumper / material system. Something that will be light in weight, easily mountable and easily able to be seen from the stands. Teams who do not wish to use bumpers can velcro / screw in place a piece of color coded plastic or another material to indicate which alliance they are on for that match. This is not complicated and nor should it be considered to be complicated, Flags have got to go and something much more safer must be used.

Originally Posted by Teger

Im probably missing some vital thing here...but Il suggest it anyways...We are required to have the signal lights on our robots, which must be visible, and are relatively bright...why not just make those double as alliance-color indicators?

The LED Clusters in '05 and '06 pulled double duty as a Team Color indicator and Troubleshooting / Competiton Status LED but were ditched b/c of lack of brightness. Under the Field lighting it was hard to make out which robot was on which side.

[Dave Campbell]

Travis,
Years ago, 1999 I think, we did have to use a placard indicating the team alliance color. That was the first year we did alliances. The required placard was not nearly as visible as our bumpers, nor did they stay in place during most matches. That was the year before the really cool rotating beacons with red/blue lenses (brittle and NOT shatter-proof!)
I would LOVE to get rid of the silly alliance flags, specifically this year as they have become notorious for unscoring ringers, carrying permanent scoring object on your now useless scoring robot, and just becoming dangerous projectiles during vigorous robot interaction. With the variety of robot classes and configurations of central mass structures, many flags can not be quickly seen by refs and spectators. I do appreciate the need for alliance identification, although our bumpers started as a silly suggestion during week 5 of the build that has played out interestingly.
Like you said, I don't think anything will change mid-season but if our multi-colored bumpers can invoke chages with alliance indicators, we're happy to help!

[234smidget]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

Anyone in Pittsburgh knows that Team 1038 used red or blue color coded bumpers to designate their alliance during the qualifying matches. They were very visible to spectators at all times.

My question - can a similar bumper system be put in place to get rid of the flags/flag holders and all the complications they bring to the competition? They rarely stay put; they end up being ringer magnets; and they are often hard to see from all angles. Having color-coded bumpers would solve all that.

I wouldn't expect all teams to create 2 sets of red and blue bumpers for the event, but all teams COULD be required to set aside a square "alliance patch area" covered in velcro on each side of their robot, inside the bumper zones. Instead of flags, teams would be given four matching red or blue color patches to place in these areas for the match. Even if teams chose not to use bumpers, they could still make sure these patch areas were present on their bot in the bumper zones.

Opinions? Comments?

Anyway, kudos to Team 1038 for their creative bumper color coding.

I like the idea it is very creative but i dont want it to be required...cyberblue234 design this year does not involve bumpers and would not look the same if we added bumpers...i like the flags...in this years' game throwing a ringer on someones flag accidently could decide whether a team wins or not i think it makes the game interesting but i dont know i think it all depends on the game and the rules but i hope this all makes sense... it is kind of late here