Which teams do students build/design the robot?

[pakratt1991]

After being in FIRST for 3 years, and being to about 5 competitions,
I've noticed something that is terribly wrong about FIRST.
there is no recognition/award or anything for having students build the robot.

Our orginization is student run, students do the findraising, make apointments with sponsors, design/build the robot, and make travel arangments. Our mentors are their to teach us what we have to learn to build the robot, this year not a single mentor held a tool, not a single mentor clicked a mouse on the computer, and the whole thing was designed in inventor before it was build.

Which first is about getting students involved in robotics, and this can happen if students build the robot or not. I still feel that students building/designing the robot is one of the most important parts about getting them ready for the real world, in the real world you dont stand around and watch mentors build things.

Does anyone else see this? does anyone else notice that some of these teams that do so well every year are not student run?
what are your thoughts?

[Bill Gold]

To be honest, this has been rehashed on CD for years and years. I really think there's nothing good that can come of another thread about this stuff. Read the following threads...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=student+built

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=student+built

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=student+built

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=student+built

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=student+built

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=student+built

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by pakratt1991

After being in FIRST for 3 years, and being to about 5 competitions,
I've noticed something that is terribly wrong about FIRST.
there is no recognition/award or anything for having students build the robot.

Why isn't there one? The answer is seemingly simple: FIRST doesn't care whether your robot is student-built or mentor-built. If a team finds they function better with students building, that's great--but the process of students working with mentors is the part FIRST is really looking for.

Which first is about getting students involved in robotics, and this can happen if students build the robot or not. I still feel that students building/designing the robot is one of the most important parts about getting them ready for the real world, in the real world you dont stand around and watch mentors build things.

You're right--in the real world, you don't stand around and watch mentors build things. In the real world, you take your drawings to the shop, and they construct it while you're working on other things. Specialization is a wonderful thing.

does anyone else notice that some of these teams that do so well every year are not student run?
what are your thoughts?

Yes, there are a lot of great teams out there that have a good deal of mentor input. Is there anything wrong with that? Nope.

George Wallace, 1902's coach, said it best: FIRST is like pizza. You and I may like different toppings, but there is no wrong way to do it.

[dlavery]

A great many topics have been discussed on these forums over the years, and there is an enormous amount of accumulated knowledge and discussion stored in the forum archives. Although much of it may be known to the longer-term veterans, these topics are still new to some of the more recent additions to the FIRST community. The student-vs-mentor-construction debate is one such area. If it is a new topic to you, I would encourage you to read through the accumulated wisdom of prior threads on the topic, wherein you may find almost every point thoroughly discussed. If, after reviewing that material, you have a pertinent new point to add, we welcome it. Likewise, you may find that the core of your position has already been adequately covered in previous discussions, and further debate is not necessary (which will save all of us some time).

Originally Posted by Billfred

FIRST is like pizza. You and I may like different toppings, but there is no wrong way to do it.

No wrong way to do pizza? You need to talk to my college roommate about that some time... *

-dave

* he seemed to take exception to the fact that the last time I cooked pizza I had forgotten to wipe out the oven after applying the EasyOff Oven Cleaner earlier in the day. He was muttering something about "lye doesn't make a good condiment" as he was being wheeled off to the infirmary.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Why isn't there one? The answer is seemingly simple: FIRST doesn't care whether your robot is student-built or mentor-built. If a team finds they function better with students building, that's great--but the process of students working with mentors is the part FIRST is really looking for.

This hits the nail on the head with a 20 pound sledgehammer. Inspiring students is the goal of FIRST. Someone said in another thread, "you can have a 100% student-built robot, but is every student 100% mentored?" FIRST wants students to work with mentors, not without them (or, for that matter, you could go the other way). If you really think they should have this type of award, ask them. (In the meantime, the only award you could get for this would be a Judges Award, if they decided to give you one. They could have one of those at one event be for a student-built robot, but that's not the same as a separate award.)