Go to Post There's a stark difference between bragging and taking pride in your work. While "Ha ha! We're better than you! We won seventeen regionals and you didn't!" would clearly fall in the former, listing your achievements would definitely fall in the latter. - artdutra04 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Championship Event
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2007, 08:47
Travis Hoffman's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Travis Hoffman Travis Hoffman is offline
O-H
FRC #0048 (Delphi E.L.I.T.E.)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Warren, Ohio USA
Posts: 4,047
Travis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond repute
Championship Event - Where the "Random" Match Sorting Really "Shines"

So now that everyone has had a chance to experience the joy and fun that is the patently-horrible match sorting algorithm at the regionals (why can't we have a truly random algorithm implemented for the Championship again? - We've had five weeks to work on one - is this parasitic algorithm that much bored into the flesh of the otherwise great scoring software that it takes more time than that to dig it out?), let's take a theoretical look at one of the as-yet unsettled divisional team lists for the Championship and see how the teams break down. I took this from the most recent Divisional List posted in Koko Ed's 2007 Championship Divisions thread.

Code:
Newton Team Categories
 
V = Veteran
M = Mid-Level
Y = Young  
 
V    M    Y
20  357  1305
34  365  1341
48  395  1418
60  456  1502
67  469  1510
74  498  1523
86  527  1535
97  558  1563
108 612  1617
121 648  1647
126 694  1675
141 716  1700
159 771  1714
176 830  1732
180 862  1811
195 910  1850
224 967  1872
234 1001 1929
246 1015 2010
269 1033 2046
291 1087 2067
314 1114 2100
330 1137 2137
339 1155 2182
343 1218 2252
   1270 2283

That veteran list is packed with a much higher quantity of successful 2007 teams relative to the other 2 lists, so if this division were actually finalized, "relatively inexperienced" teams like 365, 469, and 1114 would be ecstatic to reap the bountiful harvest of favorable qualifying round matchups coming their way.

365 is right on the edge of entering the "veteran" category, lowering their odds of a favorable qualifying match list. Any more higher-numbered teams signing up for the Championship and entering Newton severely jeopardizes their favorable status as a mid-level team. How messed up is a system that could potentially have a team's mentors hoping for FEWER higher-numbered teams signing up for the Championship? I know everyone on MOE is above that kind of thinking (congrats on Philly Chairman's!), but just the fact that a FIRST-sponsored algorithm could potentially introduce anti-FIRST thoughts in teams, well it's just so BLAH. BLAH in action - there are a few strong mid and high-number teams who have admitted to me they like the extra artificial "kick" this algorithm gives to their chances during qualifying. It's a guilty pleasure for them, I think. I can't necessarily blame them for feeling that way - it's hard to resist denouncing something that is to your benefit. The low-numbered vets see this and are quietly frustrated.....

WE WANT AS MANY TEAMS AS POSSIBLE TO ATTEND THESE EVENTS, AND WE WANT TO KNOW THE MATCHUPS WILL BE AS RANDOM AS POSSIBLE!

The odds of quality mid-level and high-numbered teams (who need and should receive no artificial help) seeing quality partners at the Championship during qualifying will be much greater relative to what they experienced at the regionals, and it was already bad enough at the regionals.

It will be interesting to see just how many lower-numbered teams reach the finals on Einstein.....

Could anyone with insider knowledge report on the current status of FIRST's efforts to correct this self-inflicted gaping flesh wound? I expect the Championship Team Forums to be filled with comments from team representatives who are vehemently opposed to the current algorithm. If FIRST wanted to minimize this type of chatter to provide more time for other less-publicized topics of discussion, I'd suggest they send out a communication prior to the Championship explaining what algorithm will be in place in Atlanta. If the same algorithm will be used, at least people will know. I'd also like a verbal commitment from them that this abomination will be purged from the program in 2008 before it comes time for veteran-numbered teams to start deciding how much money they will spend on official FIRST events next year.....

As a final thought, what are the chances/harm of FIRST exposing this software to other qualified professionals on teams throughout the community? If you admit there is a problem but feel you don't have enough time and could use some more manpower to revise it, then I'm sure many in the community would love to come to your aid to help iron out the wrinkles in this stuff.
__________________

Travis Hoffman, Enginerd, FRC Team 48 Delphi E.L.I.T.E.
Encouraging Learning in Technology and Engineering - www.delphielite.com
NEOFRA - Northeast Ohio FIRST Robotics Alliance - www.neofra.com
NEOFRA / Delphi E.L.I.T.E. FLL Regional Partner

Last edited by Travis Hoffman : 01-04-2007 at 10:47.
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Random" match Schedules Ben Piecuch Regional Competitions 211 23-03-2007 08:36
"Random" Match List Generation Sean Schuff Regional Competitions 32 01-04-2006 21:26
"Thunderbirds" Vs. "Team America" Which one will rule the box office? Elgin Clock Chit-Chat 3 07-09-2004 19:53
how tall is the ramp when in "up" and "balanced" position??? archiver 2001 1 24-06-2002 00:54


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:36.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi